Overheating!
07-08-2008, 04:47 PM
#201
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Something else I noticed the other day. The panel under the engine is beginning to sag in the middle a little. It's starting to bow a bit. Another thing I noticed was the GAP under the radiator between the panel and the bottom of the radiator is quite large. It's about 2 inches between the panel and the radiator. This gap is pretty much a straight shot down the panel from the front lower air duct. Now if it's straight down the panel and the radiator is above it,,, hmmm. Seems to me I'm missing a lot of air flow capabilities.
So I was thinking about blocking that gap with some rigid foam. Or maybe making an angled piece of aluminum and mounting it to the lower panel and radiator and making a little spoiler to deflect more air upwards into the radiator. I kinda like the spoiler idea.
more detailed information on the following thread:
https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-racing-25/overheating-turbo-vs-na-track-comparison-145725/
07-08-2008, 09:10 PM
#202
So I went to the dealer and there was Mazda's finest Engineers. Couple of nice guy's from Irvine CA.
So I told them a little about what had been going on. I should say I told one fellow and he interpreted it to the other fellow. So they plugged in their computer into my OBD port and asked if I would take them for a drive. I said "sure, my pleasure."
We discussed some of the overheating scenarios while we drove around town. It was about 110 outside. They said it was hot. lol
So after about 15 minutes they said they had enough logged info to go by. Well I hadn't seen anything hot out of the car yet so I said let me go down here into the downtown area. We'll get into some stop and go traffic.
Well low and behold after about 3 minutes on Mill Ave in Tempe, sitting at a stop light, the AC started to get hot. I looked at the temp gauge and sure enough it was climbing towards 3/4. I heard the fellow in the back seat say something in Japaanese. With a bit of excitement in his voice.
I asked if he saw any high numbers on his computer. More excited talking.
So I smiled and continued down the road and onto the freeway. Feeling that I had been successful in my duties.
Well they asked the Service manager if they could keep the car overnight. I said sure keep it as long as you want. But no later than Friday night. I'm going to Vegas with MM and CRH on Friday. They said ok no problem.
So I have no idea what they have planned. They stood there and talked while looking under the hood for about 10 minutes.
They were looking at where the air enters the cooling system/radiator and where it seemed to exiting.
I did tell them all about my ideas of what I thought was going on. I also showed them my Mazmart water pump that I haven't installed yet. That got a lot of talking going on. I also went over to parts and grabbed a stock one so they could compare.
I wrote down Mazmarts web address for them. Compensation will be gladly accepted Paul.
They liked the water pump. I also discussed BHR's AT Radiator with them. They liked that idea too.
I even asked why Mazda only put ONE ENGINE OIL COOLER on the AT's. Never got an answer on that one.
So we'll all have to wait a couple of day's to see what transpires.
So I told them a little about what had been going on. I should say I told one fellow and he interpreted it to the other fellow. So they plugged in their computer into my OBD port and asked if I would take them for a drive. I said "sure, my pleasure."
We discussed some of the overheating scenarios while we drove around town. It was about 110 outside. They said it was hot. lol
So after about 15 minutes they said they had enough logged info to go by. Well I hadn't seen anything hot out of the car yet so I said let me go down here into the downtown area. We'll get into some stop and go traffic.
Well low and behold after about 3 minutes on Mill Ave in Tempe, sitting at a stop light, the AC started to get hot. I looked at the temp gauge and sure enough it was climbing towards 3/4. I heard the fellow in the back seat say something in Japaanese. With a bit of excitement in his voice.
I asked if he saw any high numbers on his computer. More excited talking.
So I smiled and continued down the road and onto the freeway. Feeling that I had been successful in my duties.
Well they asked the Service manager if they could keep the car overnight. I said sure keep it as long as you want. But no later than Friday night. I'm going to Vegas with MM and CRH on Friday. They said ok no problem.
So I have no idea what they have planned. They stood there and talked while looking under the hood for about 10 minutes.
They were looking at where the air enters the cooling system/radiator and where it seemed to exiting.
I did tell them all about my ideas of what I thought was going on. I also showed them my Mazmart water pump that I haven't installed yet. That got a lot of talking going on. I also went over to parts and grabbed a stock one so they could compare.
I wrote down Mazmarts web address for them. Compensation will be gladly accepted Paul.
They liked the water pump. I also discussed BHR's AT Radiator with them. They liked that idea too. I even asked why Mazda only put ONE ENGINE OIL COOLER on the AT's. Never got an answer on that one.
So we'll all have to wait a couple of day's to see what transpires.
07-08-2008, 09:23 PM
#204
Thanks sammytcl Nice pics and data info.
This is a great idea for when your at speed. But I've seen more times that this is occurring at lower speeds.
I will definitely consider doing something along these lines as I have mentioned before. I also mentioned it to the Mazda Engineers today and they liked the idea too.
This is a great idea for when your at speed. But I've seen more times that this is occurring at lower speeds.
I will definitely consider doing something along these lines as I have mentioned before. I also mentioned it to the Mazda Engineers today and they liked the idea too.
Last edited by Easy_E1; 07-08-2008 at 09:25 PM.
07-08-2008, 09:39 PM
#205
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As I said earlier my car only acts up in stop and go traffic. Once it starts nothing seems to cure it. I get rough idle, hesitation, and the car just feels bad.
I have a MT and live in a place with humidity. I'm following his thread in anticipation of a hopefully easy fix.
I have a MT and live in a place with humidity. I'm following his thread in anticipation of a hopefully easy fix.
07-09-2008, 07:23 AM
#206
I do not foresee an easy fix to the overheating problem as long as we choose to live in the desert. Thank you Eric, your time with Mazda may have been well spent. Keep us posted as to any feed back you may get from the dealer or Mazda. See ya Friday
07-09-2008, 04:43 PM
#208
07-09-2008, 04:49 PM
#210
I just spent an hour or two with the Mazda engineers that they sent over to deal with Easy's car.
I learned two things:
1) My progress in this world will be greatly enhanced when I begin to improve my Japanese
2) The engineers are grasping at straws.
They had the tech (Karl) install even more foam around the radiator. That's it.
I don't suspect there will be much result, especially since the problem is most prevalent in stop-n-go traffic where there isn't much airflow to begin with.
Then, the engineers spent 20 minutes looking at, revving and taking pictures of my car.
I told them "Rotary Engine-u. Ichiban! Doi tashimashta."
I didn't get any free stuff.
I learned two things:
1) My progress in this world will be greatly enhanced when I begin to improve my Japanese
2) The engineers are grasping at straws.
They had the tech (Karl) install even more foam around the radiator. That's it.
I don't suspect there will be much result, especially since the problem is most prevalent in stop-n-go traffic where there isn't much airflow to begin with.
Then, the engineers spent 20 minutes looking at, revving and taking pictures of my car.
I told them "Rotary Engine-u. Ichiban! Doi tashimashta."
I didn't get any free stuff.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 07-09-2008 at 04:53 PM.
07-09-2008, 04:57 PM
#211
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well, at least they had fun playing with YOUR car. 
there's GOTTA be more they can do for Eric's car, are you kidding me?~! More foam is gonna help about as much as taking off the damn hood.
there's GOTTA be more they can do for Eric's car, are you kidding me?~! More foam is gonna help about as much as taking off the damn hood.
07-09-2008, 08:02 PM
#215
2) The engineers are grasping at straws.
They had the tech (Karl) install even more foam around the radiator. That's it.
I don't suspect there will be much result, especially since the problem is most prevalent in stop-n-go traffic where there isn't much airflow to begin with.
I don't suspect there will be much result, especially since the problem is most prevalent in stop-n-go traffic where there isn't much airflow to begin with.
Then, the engineers spent 20 minutes looking at, revving and taking pictures of my car.
)
I told them "Rotary Engine-u. Ichiban! Doi tashimashta."
(crappy sound, I forgot the exact words for it)
then you might get some free stuff. LOL
I didn't get any free stuff.
07-09-2008, 08:18 PM
#217
Thank you Paul. You did catch the post earelier where I showed them your waterpump compared to a stock one. Big eye's and big smiles. I did write down your web addy for them.
Oh come on Jeff you were happy to show them your car. And let them rev it up.
I saw the smiles on there faces.
I hope looking at your car Jeff, inspires them to do something for us all in the future,,,
Turbo, better radiator/cooling system, Lambo doors,
.
They did like your cooling mod, with the additional radiator.
I heard one if exclaim ,, "Kanichiwa Bitches!"
Todays report,,,
So they packed the lower tray with foam between the radiator and the undertray.
And we went for our afternoon drive. Temps today about 103 a bit cooler than yesterday. I was looking for my coat. During the area I was yesterday that the car temp gauge climaxed (hold your comments) it never overheated.
I looked to the fellow in the back seat monitoring the laptop and asked ,, "better?"
Without hesitation out came the word "Good!" Music to my ears.
So on with the drive. Proceeded to get onto the freeway and a little bumper to bumper action. Car still seemed to be running cool. After a few miles I again posed the question to the fellow in the backseat,, "Better?"
"Good!" was his replay again.
So what they did was a crude fix to say the least, but one must start somewhere in the design shop.
Well they will have it for one more day. I know not what they will do.
The main thing is this is becoming a problem they are looking into and, who knows. maybe future RX-8's will be better equipped to deal with the heat.
So I left them sitting in my car talking on there cell phones and gazing at the lap top log.
Until tomorrow my friends.
PS:
I'm visualizing a new BHR product.
I just spent an hour or two with the Mazda engineers that they sent over to deal with Easy's car.
I learned two things:
1) My progress in this world will be greatly enhanced when I begin to improve my Japanese
2) The engineers are grasping at straws.
They had the tech (Karl) install even more foam around the radiator. That's it.
I don't suspect there will be much result, especially since the problem is most prevalent in stop-n-go traffic where there isn't much airflow to begin with.
Then, the engineers spent 20 minutes looking at, revving and taking pictures of my car.
I told them "Rotary Engine-u. Ichiban! Doi tashimashta."
I didn't get any free stuff.
I learned two things:
1) My progress in this world will be greatly enhanced when I begin to improve my Japanese
2) The engineers are grasping at straws.
They had the tech (Karl) install even more foam around the radiator. That's it.
I don't suspect there will be much result, especially since the problem is most prevalent in stop-n-go traffic where there isn't much airflow to begin with.
Then, the engineers spent 20 minutes looking at, revving and taking pictures of my car.
I told them "Rotary Engine-u. Ichiban! Doi tashimashta."
I didn't get any free stuff.
I saw the smiles on there faces.
I hope looking at your car Jeff, inspires them to do something for us all in the future,,,
Turbo, better radiator/cooling system, Lambo doors,
.They did like your cooling mod, with the additional radiator.
I heard one if exclaim ,, "Kanichiwa Bitches!"
Todays report,,,
So they packed the lower tray with foam between the radiator and the undertray.
And we went for our afternoon drive. Temps today about 103 a bit cooler than yesterday. I was looking for my coat. During the area I was yesterday that the car temp gauge climaxed (hold your comments) it never overheated. I looked to the fellow in the back seat monitoring the laptop and asked ,, "better?"
Without hesitation out came the word "Good!" Music to my ears.
So on with the drive. Proceeded to get onto the freeway and a little bumper to bumper action. Car still seemed to be running cool. After a few miles I again posed the question to the fellow in the backseat,, "Better?"
"Good!" was his replay again.
So what they did was a crude fix to say the least, but one must start somewhere in the design shop.
Well they will have it for one more day. I know not what they will do.
The main thing is this is becoming a problem they are looking into and, who knows. maybe future RX-8's will be better equipped to deal with the heat.
So I left them sitting in my car talking on there cell phones and gazing at the lap top log.
Until tomorrow my friends.
PS:
I'm visualizing a new BHR product.
Last edited by Easy_E1; 07-09-2008 at 08:39 PM.
07-10-2008, 12:25 PM
#219
I'll snap his neck.
Move where the food is!!! It's a desert, nothing grows there!!!
07-10-2008, 02:28 PM
#221
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So Easy, are they still here or have they wrapped up and left town?
The slightly lower temps and rise in humidity this week (unfortunately for you) means that your car should run a little cooler.
This is not rocket science and I'm having a hard time understanding why Mazda is finding it so hard to get their arms around this problem? Unless you're driving a rotary in Iraq, we (Desert Southwest) live and drive in some of the harshest conditions on the planet... bar none. Temps consistently above 110F with relevant humidity of 10 percent (or less) just sends intake temps into the stratosphere.
Rotary engine's have a tendency to run warm in the first place versus piston motors. Add the fact that the Renesis is the highest compression production rotary engine that Mazda's ever produced and you get WHAT as your output? More heat. Then add to that heat sink equation the fact that autormatics use the cooling system to control tranny temps AND the fact that they opted to only go with one oil cooler in automatics, and you've got a recipe for disaster. The biggest thing Erick has going for him is that he's an enthusiast who knows what to watch for and actively monitors what's happening with his car. How many automatic owners out there are having similar problems (or worse) are totally oblivious because they have no idea what to watch for?? Dual oil coolers need to be standard equipment on ALL RX-8s. Automatics should have a separate tranny cooler as well. JMO
The slightly lower temps and rise in humidity this week (unfortunately for you) means that your car should run a little cooler.
This is not rocket science and I'm having a hard time understanding why Mazda is finding it so hard to get their arms around this problem? Unless you're driving a rotary in Iraq, we (Desert Southwest) live and drive in some of the harshest conditions on the planet... bar none. Temps consistently above 110F with relevant humidity of 10 percent (or less) just sends intake temps into the stratosphere.
Rotary engine's have a tendency to run warm in the first place versus piston motors. Add the fact that the Renesis is the highest compression production rotary engine that Mazda's ever produced and you get WHAT as your output? More heat. Then add to that heat sink equation the fact that autormatics use the cooling system to control tranny temps AND the fact that they opted to only go with one oil cooler in automatics, and you've got a recipe for disaster. The biggest thing Erick has going for him is that he's an enthusiast who knows what to watch for and actively monitors what's happening with his car. How many automatic owners out there are having similar problems (or worse) are totally oblivious because they have no idea what to watch for?? Dual oil coolers need to be standard equipment on ALL RX-8s. Automatics should have a separate tranny cooler as well. JMO
07-10-2008, 02:35 PM
#222
There is a TiT '05 M/T at Berge getting a new motor, a few bays down from Easy's car.
The PCM reported a 300°F coolant temp when it threw the CEL from the misfire as the motor died.
Can you imagine the type of owner it takes to drive their car up to 300°F?
I didn't even know it was possible to get coolant to that temperature!
The PCM reported a 300°F coolant temp when it threw the CEL from the misfire as the motor died.
Can you imagine the type of owner it takes to drive their car up to 300°F?
I didn't even know it was possible to get coolant to that temperature!
07-10-2008, 03:35 PM
#225
Quick related question: is the stock coolant temperature sensor located in the water pump housing on the feed side to the keg or elsewhere? I have an aftermarket gauge reading maybe in the 170s at highway cruise (no boost), but I can run it up to 220+ getting on it like a highway onramp. My fans, however, don't seem to be kicking on when I idle the car. I thought this funny, so I plugged my laptop into the interceptor and saw that the stock sensor was reading much lower (180 when the gauge was over 200). If my gauge sensor is on the hot side and the stock one is on the cold side, that would make sense. I don't really need the gauge to be accurate as I'm not going to stare at it, but if I can correlate a warning point on the gauge to what the stock sensor is seeing, I can set that and not worry about it. Right now, I'll park and watch my temps creep up on the gauge and not hear my fans come on. I don't want to let the car idle up passed 240 degrees just to see if the fans are disabled and the engine is actually overheating versus my gauge just reading high (or being too close to the turbine housing with no air flow between) and if I let it ride, the fans will come on.
It's been in the mid 70s here in NJ with decent humidity so overheating should not be an issue (other than just sitting in boost). Maybe I'll just plug my laptop in and watch the temps and see if it'll idle up to 100C with no fans. That'll be pretty high on my gauge though. Hmmmmm......
It's been in the mid 70s here in NJ with decent humidity so overheating should not be an issue (other than just sitting in boost). Maybe I'll just plug my laptop in and watch the temps and see if it'll idle up to 100C with no fans. That'll be pretty high on my gauge though. Hmmmmm......