RECALL THREAD/MNAO suspend RX-8 deliveries.
07-23-2005, 04:25 AM
#476
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Originally Posted by Lock & Load
Gomez
How the hell do you come up with information on the cars in US :D instead of Australia ??? have you hacked into mazda America headquarters .???
B...free
michael
How the hell do you come up with information on the cars in US :D instead of Australia ??? have you hacked into mazda America headquarters .???
B...free
michael
B...free
07-23-2005, 07:03 AM
#479
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Originally Posted by Gomez
Also modified. To prevent thermal damage, the PCM will reduce RPM to 900 if the throttle is held above certain rpm levels for pre-determined time periods under the following conditions:
- Engine temp more than 140 deg f
Will default to 900rpm if:
over 8500rpm for over 10 seconds.
3000-8500 for over 2 minutes.
1300-3000 for over 5 minutes.
Gomez.
07-23-2005, 08:50 AM
#481
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Originally Posted by goforwand
Under what circumstances could your engine temp get over 140 deg. F?
07-23-2005, 08:57 AM
#482
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Originally Posted by jalibrandi
So this flash should have absolutely no impact on normal driving performance..right?
It seems that it would - depending on what flash you are coming from. I was on "M" and flashed to "R". The R flash incorporates "N" flash changes to bring your car up to date.
07-23-2005, 10:27 AM
#485
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Originally Posted by olddragger
This could be a real good thing. Obviously Mazda is doing the right thing. Cudos to them for stepping up like they are doing.
I have always said(since Jan/o4) that heat was a problem in the engine bay of this car. There is just no flow of air in that thing until you get to 60ph and we all know that the rotory puts out a lot of heat. I think they tried to compensate with the dual oil coolers up front but those things only cool well when some air is going through them. Automatic's only have one of them Hmmmmm? The rotory engine itself may be able to withstand the heat but all the other componets may not. What other car has a dedicated cooling system(abeit a pretty poor one) for the ecu?( I admit there may be some but I am not aware of any.) I conversed with CZ about my concern with the heat and electronics in early 04. They thought the temps where high also. Run your car in town one day with the a/c on and the outside temp over 90. Drive below 45mph for 30-45mins. Get home remove your ecu cover and touch the ecu-- it will almost burn your hand. Thats too hot.Things may tolerate heat for a while but in time excessive heat will wear on it.
Futher more the issue with the oil pump, I am not sure if the pump is providing enough oil when needed. I wish I could afford to send mine to RB for their mod. But why should I. Mazda now maybe will fix that issue. I also bet there is more going on than just heat. Mazda did a LOT of remarkable things with this car but I dont think the package is what it could be. Glad to hear Mazda is serious> renews my faith. I await.
Olddragger
I have always said(since Jan/o4) that heat was a problem in the engine bay of this car. There is just no flow of air in that thing until you get to 60ph and we all know that the rotory puts out a lot of heat. I think they tried to compensate with the dual oil coolers up front but those things only cool well when some air is going through them. Automatic's only have one of them Hmmmmm? The rotory engine itself may be able to withstand the heat but all the other componets may not. What other car has a dedicated cooling system(abeit a pretty poor one) for the ecu?( I admit there may be some but I am not aware of any.) I conversed with CZ about my concern with the heat and electronics in early 04. They thought the temps where high also. Run your car in town one day with the a/c on and the outside temp over 90. Drive below 45mph for 30-45mins. Get home remove your ecu cover and touch the ecu-- it will almost burn your hand. Thats too hot.Things may tolerate heat for a while but in time excessive heat will wear on it.
Futher more the issue with the oil pump, I am not sure if the pump is providing enough oil when needed. I wish I could afford to send mine to RB for their mod. But why should I. Mazda now maybe will fix that issue. I also bet there is more going on than just heat. Mazda did a LOT of remarkable things with this car but I dont think the package is what it could be. Glad to hear Mazda is serious> renews my faith. I await.
Olddragger
The issue should be:
If Mazda only does an inspection and NOT a total PHYSICAL fix, THEN
What do the owners do, have another inspection ever month for years or
Wait for the dam car to burn up when driving normally.
The car has always run HOT, The interior of the car is hotter than any car I have ever driven in.
07-23-2005, 10:47 AM
#486
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Originally Posted by demob05
Reading over everything here, seems that the common denominator is the Heat... this has always been inherent in a rotary engine design, so wanted to know from the ol RX-7 owners if they experienced similar type of recalls on their earlier models?? Or are issues also developing because the Renesis, at 1.3L, produces more power to weight Naturally Aspired of course, than any previous 2 rotor NA Rotary engine??
mine ran cool 100h.p. and 27 m.p.g. on the road. sweet
07-23-2005, 10:49 AM
#487
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Woohoo. :D
Now I hope that the dealers can get all those parts mentioned. I'm guessing they don't carry some of those items so they will inspect, order, wait and then fix. Maybe they'll get some extras in. I have no idea how a dealer runs their parts inventory. Maybe others here can answer that.
Any chance of a PDF with the instructions? It makes things go a lot smoother if I can take a printed copy of the instructions to the dealer. Gets them moving that much quicker.
Thanks Gomez for everything you have done to help us hapless souls. Thanks to zoom44 and all others as well.
Maybe I'll get to enjoy this car soon... Hope I don't have a cracked control arm on the car I've bought.
Now I hope that the dealers can get all those parts mentioned. I'm guessing they don't carry some of those items so they will inspect, order, wait and then fix. Maybe they'll get some extras in. I have no idea how a dealer runs their parts inventory. Maybe others here can answer that.
Any chance of a PDF with the instructions? It makes things go a lot smoother if I can take a printed copy of the instructions to the dealer. Gets them moving that much quicker.
Thanks Gomez for everything you have done to help us hapless souls. Thanks to zoom44 and all others as well.
Maybe I'll get to enjoy this car soon... Hope I don't have a cracked control arm on the car I've bought.
07-23-2005, 11:09 AM
#488
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wondering
ok im wondering how much this "Thermal Blanket" is gonna weigh?? because i sy this add in an import magazine that has the really thin gold "aluminum foil" loooking thermal sheilding that would probably do the job.... but if you put that on there yourself, the car probably wouldnt be under warrrenty anymore huh??? i got another question ... i know there is ceramic coating for headders if you coated the rotors would it do anything for performance/reliability or would it just send more heat to th houseing or burn out the cat
07-23-2005, 12:17 PM
#490
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I think some folks are panicking, again, about heat. Mazda's not stupid. They know more about Wankels than anyone else in the world at this point.
They tested the living hell out of the Renesis and Rx-8. But testing won't show every little ***** in the armor. Never has, never will. No matter how well the test is designed and executed. That is the nature of engineering. Little things will creep up in real life. That's what warranties and recalls are for.
This happened to Boeing, Airbus, Douglas, North American, Ford, Chevy, Porsche, Ferrari, Rockwell, etc etc. This happened and will happen to anyone who makes anything. It's not a big deal. At least the cars aren't exploding into fireballs, or dropping parts on the road.
This car does indeed run hotter than a pistonmotor. Any wankel car does. But I will again say my Miata felt *hotter* around the console and footwells than the 8. And so did my GSL-SE.
So far, there are no reported issues of under-hood temps getting out of hand.
The heat recall is focused on a very precise set of events. Events that I bet will not affect the great majority of owners. It is not some fundamental defect in the car. It is just a number of little things coming together under a very specific set of circumstances. It does not involve the engine or engine bay, even.
Instead of all the speculatin', folks, why not just relax a little, and go for a drive or two, and let Mazda fix the car? They designed it, tested it and built it. The guys at Hiroshima know more about it than anyone else. Just because one may *think* that it runs too hot doesn't make it so.
And I'll say it yet again, because people seem to not grasp this: My GSL-SE and Miata put out more heat into the cabin than the 8 does.
I feel just as confident in the 8 as I did in the Miata. I feel more confident, actually, because there's been 10 years between the two. They've learned lots in 10 years. Witness the virtual lack of vacuum-lines in the Renesis. How tidy that engine bay is compared to any 13-B based Rx-7. Much less crap to go wrong. The ECU gets more complex, but that allows them to simplify the actual mechanical bits.
My prediction is the Renesis and Rx-8 will be the most sucessful and reliable rotary car ever built by anyone. Bold words, perhaps, but I stand by them.
They tested the living hell out of the Renesis and Rx-8. But testing won't show every little ***** in the armor. Never has, never will. No matter how well the test is designed and executed. That is the nature of engineering. Little things will creep up in real life. That's what warranties and recalls are for.
This happened to Boeing, Airbus, Douglas, North American, Ford, Chevy, Porsche, Ferrari, Rockwell, etc etc. This happened and will happen to anyone who makes anything. It's not a big deal. At least the cars aren't exploding into fireballs, or dropping parts on the road.
This car does indeed run hotter than a pistonmotor. Any wankel car does. But I will again say my Miata felt *hotter* around the console and footwells than the 8. And so did my GSL-SE.
So far, there are no reported issues of under-hood temps getting out of hand.
The heat recall is focused on a very precise set of events. Events that I bet will not affect the great majority of owners. It is not some fundamental defect in the car. It is just a number of little things coming together under a very specific set of circumstances. It does not involve the engine or engine bay, even.
Instead of all the speculatin', folks, why not just relax a little, and go for a drive or two, and let Mazda fix the car? They designed it, tested it and built it. The guys at Hiroshima know more about it than anyone else. Just because one may *think* that it runs too hot doesn't make it so.
And I'll say it yet again, because people seem to not grasp this: My GSL-SE and Miata put out more heat into the cabin than the 8 does.
I feel just as confident in the 8 as I did in the Miata. I feel more confident, actually, because there's been 10 years between the two. They've learned lots in 10 years. Witness the virtual lack of vacuum-lines in the Renesis. How tidy that engine bay is compared to any 13-B based Rx-7. Much less crap to go wrong. The ECU gets more complex, but that allows them to simplify the actual mechanical bits.
My prediction is the Renesis and Rx-8 will be the most sucessful and reliable rotary car ever built by anyone. Bold words, perhaps, but I stand by them.
Last edited by missinmahseven; 07-23-2005 at 01:17 PM. Reason: how could I mangle "hiroshima.." :rolleyes:
07-23-2005, 12:18 PM
#491
Administrator
Originally Posted by Gomez
I was a tad surprised about the '04 flash level, I was told different earlier. Apologies to Polak and zoom.... :o
i figured it would work itself out eventually
07-23-2005, 12:27 PM
#492
Administrator
Originally Posted by sandia8
Right on!!!
The issue should be:
If Mazda only does an inspection and NOT a total PHYSICAL fix, THEN
The issue should be:
If Mazda only does an inspection and NOT a total PHYSICAL fix, THEN
what part of "group 1 vehicles will get thermal protection that group 2 cars already have." dont you understand? what part of " this is caused by some specific circumstances that the pcm reacts to and now the pcm will have a different reaction that will not cause the issue." dont you understand?
PARTS INSPECTION
Check the parts in the list below for heat deformation or heat damage. If you find any deformed or damaged
parts by heat, replace the deformed or damaged parts. See Workhop manual for appropriate replacement procedures.
If during inspection, no damaged parts are found / or after replacement of any of the following parts, go
to FUEL TANK INSPECTION (Group1 Vehicles Only) or “C” AUTHORIZED MODIFICATION LABEL
INSTALLATION (Group 2 Vehicles Only):
1. Check the following parts for heat damage:
• Neutral Switch Connector / Harness Cover (for MT vehicle only).
• Rear O2 Sensor Connector / Harness Cover.
• Parking Brake Cable bellows covers.
• Plastic parking brake cable clip attaching the parking brake cables to the fuel tank metal insulator.
• Urethane pads located in bottom of cup holder (may shrink in size).
• Body grommets at the side of the rear frame, above the muffler.
• Back up light switch connector / harness cover
• Engine harness protector / cover
NOTE:
• Refer to the following figures to identify related parts.
After inspecting the parts listed above, if you find any heat deformed or heat damaged parts (even if only one
part was identified), inspect the plastic socket under the shift lever for heat deformation (6MT vehicles only). If
the plastic socket is deformed, replace the plastic socket. See Workshop manual section 05-11 MANUAL
TRANSMISSION. Poor shifting may result if the plastic seat is deformed by heat and not replaced.
Check the parts in the list below for heat deformation or heat damage. If you find any deformed or damaged
parts by heat, replace the deformed or damaged parts. See Workhop manual for appropriate replacement procedures.
If during inspection, no damaged parts are found / or after replacement of any of the following parts, go
to FUEL TANK INSPECTION (Group1 Vehicles Only) or “C” AUTHORIZED MODIFICATION LABEL
INSTALLATION (Group 2 Vehicles Only):
1. Check the following parts for heat damage:
• Neutral Switch Connector / Harness Cover (for MT vehicle only).
• Rear O2 Sensor Connector / Harness Cover.
• Parking Brake Cable bellows covers.
• Plastic parking brake cable clip attaching the parking brake cables to the fuel tank metal insulator.
• Urethane pads located in bottom of cup holder (may shrink in size).
• Body grommets at the side of the rear frame, above the muffler.
• Back up light switch connector / harness cover
• Engine harness protector / cover
NOTE:
• Refer to the following figures to identify related parts.
After inspecting the parts listed above, if you find any heat deformed or heat damaged parts (even if only one
part was identified), inspect the plastic socket under the shift lever for heat deformation (6MT vehicles only). If
the plastic socket is deformed, replace the plastic socket. See Workshop manual section 05-11 MANUAL
TRANSMISSION. Poor shifting may result if the plastic seat is deformed by heat and not replaced.
FUEL TANK INSPECTION (Group 1 Vehicles Only)
1. Raise and support vehicle.
2. Support the fuel tank using a transmission jack or suitable device.
3. Remove the front fuel tank strap bolts and loosen the rear fuel tank strap bolts 10 turns.
4. Lower the front of the fuel tank far enough to visually identify the horizontal fuel tank seam approximately 2”
above the edge of the lower heat shield at the hump in the fuel tank.
5. Check the area around the horizontal fuel tank seam for heat deformation or heat damage.
NOTE:
• Heat deformation / heat damage will be identified by wrinkling of the plastic fuel tank.
• If the fuel tank is deformed or damaged by heat, replace the fuel tank and the back-up light switch connector.
See Workshop manual section 01-14 FUEL TANK REMOVAL / INSTALLATION. The new fuel
tank comes with the heat insulation pad installed.
• If fuel tank is not deformed or damaged, see the following:
- Go to “FUEL TANK HEAT INSULATION PAD INSTALLATION (GROUP 1 VEHICLES ONLY)”.
1. Raise and support vehicle.
2. Support the fuel tank using a transmission jack or suitable device.
3. Remove the front fuel tank strap bolts and loosen the rear fuel tank strap bolts 10 turns.
4. Lower the front of the fuel tank far enough to visually identify the horizontal fuel tank seam approximately 2”
above the edge of the lower heat shield at the hump in the fuel tank.
5. Check the area around the horizontal fuel tank seam for heat deformation or heat damage.
NOTE:
• Heat deformation / heat damage will be identified by wrinkling of the plastic fuel tank.
• If the fuel tank is deformed or damaged by heat, replace the fuel tank and the back-up light switch connector.
See Workshop manual section 01-14 FUEL TANK REMOVAL / INSTALLATION. The new fuel
tank comes with the heat insulation pad installed.
• If fuel tank is not deformed or damaged, see the following:
- Go to “FUEL TANK HEAT INSULATION PAD INSTALLATION (GROUP 1 VEHICLES ONLY)”.
07-23-2005, 12:30 PM
#493
Administrator
Blanket Install
FUEL TANK HEAT INSULATION PAD INSTALLATION (GROUP 1 VEHICLES ONLY)
CAUTION: Use gloves when installing fuel tank heat pad insulation to avoid injury.
NOTE: Fuel tank will need to remain supported and in lowered position as outlined in “FUEL TANK INSPECTION”.
1. Position the parking brake cables out of the way by removing the bolt attaching the cable stay to the transmission
tunnel mounted above the power plant frame and directly in front of the fuel tank. Slide the cable
stay toward front of vehicle approximately 4” (100mm).
2. Center the heat insulation pad over the hump in the fuel tank metal insulator evenly between the body and
the tank.
3. Position left end of heat insulation pad (looking at front of tank) approximately 3/4” (20mm) from the center
line of the fuel tank strap.
NOTE:
• The working area to perform this procedure is limited. Make sure you double check the placement
of the heat insulation pad before installing the fuel tank and completing the repair.
4. Insert the bottom center of the heat insulation pad approx. 1/4” (5mm) between the hump in the fuel tank
and the metal insulator. Using a spatula or equivalent, tuck the heat insulation pad approx. 1/4” (5mm)
between the fuel tank and metal insulator. Do not wrinkle the pad. Note location of heat insulation pad for
next step.
5. Pull out ends of heat insulation pad from metal insulator, noting where best to place double-sided tape.
Attach double-sided tape on the both ends of the tank to attach the heat insulation pad temporarily. Tuck
heat insulation pad back in between metal insulator and fuel tank approx. 1/4” (5mm) as previously performed
in step 5. Ensure no gaps exist between the heat insulation pad and the metal insulator. Do not wrinkle
the pad. Reposition pad if necessary.
NOTE:
• Before attaching the tape, clean the surface of the tank with a cloth or equivalent.
• The purpose of the tape is to hold the heat insulation pad while installing the fuel tank into the
vehicle. The heat insulation pad will be sandwiched between the body and the fuel tank after
installation.
6. Slowly raise the fuel tank back into position and reattach the straps to hold fuel tank in place.
7. Confirm that the bottom end of the heat insulation pad is properly inserted between the fuel tank and the
metal insulator.
8. Reinstall the parking brake cable stay for the parking brake cable onto the original position.
• Tightening Torque: 18.6–25.5 Nm
CAUTION: Use gloves when installing fuel tank heat pad insulation to avoid injury.
NOTE: Fuel tank will need to remain supported and in lowered position as outlined in “FUEL TANK INSPECTION”.
1. Position the parking brake cables out of the way by removing the bolt attaching the cable stay to the transmission
tunnel mounted above the power plant frame and directly in front of the fuel tank. Slide the cable
stay toward front of vehicle approximately 4” (100mm).
2. Center the heat insulation pad over the hump in the fuel tank metal insulator evenly between the body and
the tank.
3. Position left end of heat insulation pad (looking at front of tank) approximately 3/4” (20mm) from the center
line of the fuel tank strap.
NOTE:
• The working area to perform this procedure is limited. Make sure you double check the placement
of the heat insulation pad before installing the fuel tank and completing the repair.
4. Insert the bottom center of the heat insulation pad approx. 1/4” (5mm) between the hump in the fuel tank
and the metal insulator. Using a spatula or equivalent, tuck the heat insulation pad approx. 1/4” (5mm)
between the fuel tank and metal insulator. Do not wrinkle the pad. Note location of heat insulation pad for
next step.
5. Pull out ends of heat insulation pad from metal insulator, noting where best to place double-sided tape.
Attach double-sided tape on the both ends of the tank to attach the heat insulation pad temporarily. Tuck
heat insulation pad back in between metal insulator and fuel tank approx. 1/4” (5mm) as previously performed
in step 5. Ensure no gaps exist between the heat insulation pad and the metal insulator. Do not wrinkle
the pad. Reposition pad if necessary.
NOTE:
• Before attaching the tape, clean the surface of the tank with a cloth or equivalent.
• The purpose of the tape is to hold the heat insulation pad while installing the fuel tank into the
vehicle. The heat insulation pad will be sandwiched between the body and the fuel tank after
installation.
6. Slowly raise the fuel tank back into position and reattach the straps to hold fuel tank in place.
7. Confirm that the bottom end of the heat insulation pad is properly inserted between the fuel tank and the
metal insulator.
8. Reinstall the parking brake cable stay for the parking brake cable onto the original position.
• Tightening Torque: 18.6–25.5 Nm
07-23-2005, 01:06 PM
#494
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Originally Posted by olddragger
Does the group one cars get the thermal blanket. Am I missing something?
olddragger
olddragger
07-23-2005, 01:07 PM
#495
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Originally Posted by zoom44
please note that i did not argue with you along the way i figured it would work itself out eventually
i figured it would work itself out eventually
.
07-23-2005, 01:10 PM
#496
Administrator
missed the group one stuff at first because they just updated attachment 2 instead of adding another atachment. Its too damn big now to post so we'll just have to wait until Rosenthal updates theirs so everyone can read the whole thing.
gomez- i missed that the S and F were only for the AT s and that the MTs were ok at R and E
gomez- i missed that the S and F were only for the AT s and that the MTs were ok at R and E
07-23-2005, 01:54 PM
#499
Originally Posted by zoom44
missed the group one stuff at first because they just updated attachment 2 instead of adding another atachment. Its too damn big now to post so we'll just have to wait until Rosenthal updates theirs so everyone can read the whole thing.
gomez- i missed that the S and F were only for the AT s and that the MTs were ok at R and E
gomez- i missed that the S and F were only for the AT s and that the MTs were ok at R and E
Doesn't seem like any of it is a big problem though. They are being very cautious to check everything that could be heat damaged....including the socket for the shifter......
07-23-2005, 03:09 PM
#500
Originally Posted by Gomez
I was a tad surprised about the '04 flash level, I was told different earlier. Apologies to Polak and zoom.... :o
Originally Posted by Gomez
Will default to 900rpm if:
over 8500rpm for over 10 seconds.
3000-8500 for over 2 minutes.
1300-3000 for over 5 minutes.
over 8500rpm for over 10 seconds.
3000-8500 for over 2 minutes.
1300-3000 for over 5 minutes.
Last edited by PoLaK; 07-23-2005 at 03:21 PM.