Unique Rough Idle w/ Video!!!
09-29-2010, 07:07 PM
#1
Unique Rough Idle w/ Video!!!
I copied and pasted my problem from another thread because im still having the same problem...
Alright Ill start from the beginning, btw of which I know it had to be something I did because of the fact that my idle changed...
I ordered Mazmarts REmedy water pump & Thermostat combo and recieved it in the mail about 4 weeks ago and had recieved my Cobb AP from you 2 weeks before I recieved my pump & thermostat combo.
I installed the (MM) base map and my idle was very smooth. No hiccups or rough idling at all, Looking at my idle datalog I sent you (MM) my idle was consistant at roughly ~830 to ~880 rpms, never dipping below 800 or above 900rpms.
2 weeks later I install my REmedy Water pump & thermostat combo and my idle started being VERY rough . Since I dont know to exactly and accurately describe how we did the install I will do my best. Some things may be out of order simply because I forgot what comes first.
I unhooked the battery and battery box, took it out so I could get a good shot at the water pump. Loosened the bolt which holds the alternator in place. Loosened the bolts which hold the pulleys to the waterpump and the bolts which loosen the belts so I could slip them off. Jacked the car up and put the front on stands, pulled the coolant drain plug from the engine block, allowed it to drain until a dribble then loosened the rest of the water pump bolts and more coolant started to flow from the coolant drain plug as well as from the water pump, minor coolant loss. I have a AEM CAI and I did NOT have to remove it because it didnt take up much space and I still have an easy shot at the water pump. I did unplug the MAF sensor but plugged it back again after realizing I didnt need to remove the intake, car was still off so it did not affect anything.
Took old water pump out and set aside, now to the thermostat. We had to remove the front passenger wheel to get to the two bolts that holds the Picture Jon posted and disconnected that line as well. We couldnt get the old thermostat out without doing this, after removing that we easily replaced the old thermostat with the new REmedy one and installed everything virtually in reverse order, yes I connected the lines by the solenoid.
I do NOT know if we properly torqued the water pump because we didnt use a torque wrench but I remember Brian (SpeedyGuy) telling me to not torque it down really hard where you cant twist the wrench anymore because the pump is made of aluminum and its a soft metal. I reinstalled the new water pump and he went behind me to self check every bolt to make sure it wasnt too loose, he tighten by his sense of feel, which I trust. He then proceeded to show me how tight the belts need to be and showing me how to check etc.
Next we poured the drained coolant back in and he disconnected a hose by the throttle body to allow air to escape this burping the coolant system while minorly squeezing the radiator hoses to ensure all the air was out. I revved to 3500 rpms with heat on full blast for roughly 35 seconds and that was it. We connected the hose by the TB and everything was installed and ready... As the idle came back down I noticed it was hiccuping and idling rough, no worries I thought because we took the battery out and the fuel trims were reset. After letting my car idle for 10 minutes or so making sure I had no air we took it out for a test drive, pulled over in a parking lot to make sure nothing was leaking and I was good. We were done...
After 7-10 start ups (about a week ago) I still had rough idles, dipping below 800 to around 720-750 and over 900 to 910, then back down really low, not a very smooth idle at all. Im stilll trying to figure out what could be the problem. A water pump and thermostat would not cause my idle to change so it had to be something we did, but I cant think of what. I reset my ECU with the braketaps and same thing... Nothing has changed, my idle is still rougher than what it used to be, not normal. No problems though when im driving, it just seems to be my idle.
Yes I know Jedi the BHR ignition system wont fix this but I thought maybe my coils are going out. My car was in the shop about a month ago and while showing my Service Manger what the problem was (drive along) my car misfired so he told me he would do the TSB for "loss of power" which includes Zoom Zoom cleaner and new plugs. He said since I was out of Bumper to Bumper warranty I probably wouldnt be getting new coils but he'd try.
Now ive read stories about Mazda Techs changing your old spark plugs out first and putting in your new ones then decarbing your engine which fouls the brand new plugs. Taking that into consideration I ordered BHR's ignition system and new plugs.
I have a datalog Jeff of my rough idle I can send to you Jeff if youd like...
Im just confused as to what would cause this...
Hope this helps, I apprecaite it...
I uploaded a video as well showing my Cobb AP on rpms to show yall the problem.
UPDATE: MY MAF and AEM CAI screens are fine, I checked them after I made the video. I had the problem before I installed the BHR ignition system so I am NOT blaming them at all, I felt a massive difference with the BHR igntion system, it is NOT the cause of this idle problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wv340FqXYw
Alright Ill start from the beginning, btw of which I know it had to be something I did because of the fact that my idle changed...
I ordered Mazmarts REmedy water pump & Thermostat combo and recieved it in the mail about 4 weeks ago and had recieved my Cobb AP from you 2 weeks before I recieved my pump & thermostat combo.
I installed the (MM) base map and my idle was very smooth. No hiccups or rough idling at all, Looking at my idle datalog I sent you (MM) my idle was consistant at roughly ~830 to ~880 rpms, never dipping below 800 or above 900rpms.
2 weeks later I install my REmedy Water pump & thermostat combo and my idle started being VERY rough . Since I dont know to exactly and accurately describe how we did the install I will do my best. Some things may be out of order simply because I forgot what comes first.
I unhooked the battery and battery box, took it out so I could get a good shot at the water pump. Loosened the bolt which holds the alternator in place. Loosened the bolts which hold the pulleys to the waterpump and the bolts which loosen the belts so I could slip them off. Jacked the car up and put the front on stands, pulled the coolant drain plug from the engine block, allowed it to drain until a dribble then loosened the rest of the water pump bolts and more coolant started to flow from the coolant drain plug as well as from the water pump, minor coolant loss. I have a AEM CAI and I did NOT have to remove it because it didnt take up much space and I still have an easy shot at the water pump. I did unplug the MAF sensor but plugged it back again after realizing I didnt need to remove the intake, car was still off so it did not affect anything.
Took old water pump out and set aside, now to the thermostat. We had to remove the front passenger wheel to get to the two bolts that holds the Picture Jon posted and disconnected that line as well. We couldnt get the old thermostat out without doing this, after removing that we easily replaced the old thermostat with the new REmedy one and installed everything virtually in reverse order, yes I connected the lines by the solenoid.
I do NOT know if we properly torqued the water pump because we didnt use a torque wrench but I remember Brian (SpeedyGuy) telling me to not torque it down really hard where you cant twist the wrench anymore because the pump is made of aluminum and its a soft metal. I reinstalled the new water pump and he went behind me to self check every bolt to make sure it wasnt too loose, he tighten by his sense of feel, which I trust. He then proceeded to show me how tight the belts need to be and showing me how to check etc.
Next we poured the drained coolant back in and he disconnected a hose by the throttle body to allow air to escape this burping the coolant system while minorly squeezing the radiator hoses to ensure all the air was out. I revved to 3500 rpms with heat on full blast for roughly 35 seconds and that was it. We connected the hose by the TB and everything was installed and ready... As the idle came back down I noticed it was hiccuping and idling rough, no worries I thought because we took the battery out and the fuel trims were reset. After letting my car idle for 10 minutes or so making sure I had no air we took it out for a test drive, pulled over in a parking lot to make sure nothing was leaking and I was good. We were done...
After 7-10 start ups (about a week ago) I still had rough idles, dipping below 800 to around 720-750 and over 900 to 910, then back down really low, not a very smooth idle at all. Im stilll trying to figure out what could be the problem. A water pump and thermostat would not cause my idle to change so it had to be something we did, but I cant think of what. I reset my ECU with the braketaps and same thing... Nothing has changed, my idle is still rougher than what it used to be, not normal. No problems though when im driving, it just seems to be my idle.
Yes I know Jedi the BHR ignition system wont fix this but I thought maybe my coils are going out. My car was in the shop about a month ago and while showing my Service Manger what the problem was (drive along) my car misfired so he told me he would do the TSB for "loss of power" which includes Zoom Zoom cleaner and new plugs. He said since I was out of Bumper to Bumper warranty I probably wouldnt be getting new coils but he'd try.
Now ive read stories about Mazda Techs changing your old spark plugs out first and putting in your new ones then decarbing your engine which fouls the brand new plugs. Taking that into consideration I ordered BHR's ignition system and new plugs.
I have a datalog Jeff of my rough idle I can send to you Jeff if youd like...
Im just confused as to what would cause this...
Hope this helps, I apprecaite it...
I uploaded a video as well showing my Cobb AP on rpms to show yall the problem.
UPDATE: MY MAF and AEM CAI screens are fine, I checked them after I made the video. I had the problem before I installed the BHR ignition system so I am NOT blaming them at all, I felt a massive difference with the BHR igntion system, it is NOT the cause of this idle problem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wv340FqXYw
Last edited by WTBRotary!; 09-29-2010 at 07:11 PM.
09-29-2010, 07:14 PM
#2
Power!!
I would start taking out variables to see what changes the idle. Have you uninstalled the AP? If not try that and see if it still has the problem on the stock tune. Don't worry you can always re-install the AP with the MM tune.
09-29-2010, 07:15 PM
#3
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Only thing I can think of right away is to go check the O-ring on the MAF. I have heard of them getting pinched when putting back in and causing air flow metering issues. Go take the MAF out again real carefully and inspect that. I just saw another thread on that a few minutes ago.
09-29-2010, 07:20 PM
#4
Thank you kind sir, I will try that... But heres why I dont think it will work: AP was installed before I did my REmedy water pump and thermostat install and my idle was perfect.
Literally as soon as my install got done and I cranked up the car there was that very rough idle problem (as you can see on my Cobb AP). Its a rough idle that has nothing to do with the MAF, Ignition or battery.
Also I have looked for Vac leaks as I have read they can cause idle problems, but the only line I opened was by the throttle body and that was during the install to burp the coolant system, we put that back on though so I shouldnt have any vac leaks...
Never the less I will try what you said, thanks
Literally as soon as my install got done and I cranked up the car there was that very rough idle problem (as you can see on my Cobb AP). Its a rough idle that has nothing to do with the MAF, Ignition or battery.
Also I have looked for Vac leaks as I have read they can cause idle problems, but the only line I opened was by the throttle body and that was during the install to burp the coolant system, we put that back on though so I shouldnt have any vac leaks...
Never the less I will try what you said, thanks
Last edited by WTBRotary!; 09-29-2010 at 07:22 PM.
09-29-2010, 07:23 PM
#5
Only thing I can think of right away is to go check the O-ring on the MAF. I have heard of them getting pinched when putting back in and causing air flow metering issues. Go take the MAF out again real carefully and inspect that. I just saw another thread on that a few minutes ago.
The Idle problem came before I checked the MAF, Ive had this problem since a week or two before Sevenstock 13, I will check the O-ring to make sure its not pinched, Thanks
09-29-2010, 07:29 PM
#7
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Didn't know the exact timing of MAF taken out to Water pump(and thermo) to idle issue. I must have gotten lost in the post. Was a lot of info. Anyway, I know you are gonna swear that it was the water pump change that caused the idle, and if you do and nothing else........then really the only thing is that it might be a complete coincidence.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 09-29-2010 at 07:32 PM.
09-29-2010, 07:48 PM
#8
Didn't know the exact timing of MAF taken out to Water pump(and thermo) to idle issue. I must have gotten lost in the post. Was a lot of info. Anyway, I know you are gonna swear that it was the water pump change that caused the idle, and if you do and nothing else........then really the only thing is that it might be a complete coincidence.
09-29-2010, 08:42 PM
#9
Administrator
i dotn really think you have a problem. the variation is not that great. you have an idle that varies about 100 rpm .... thats no big deal really. that the rpm changes when you are holding your foot ont he throttle- well its drive by wire so you are just tasking the pcm for a certain amount of throttle and its adjusting it to how it wants to, essentially. the pcm has some latitude on what to do because of engine temp and other input.
but if you want things to check - check the neutral sensor on the tranny, check the eshaft position sensor and the throttle plate(make sure its clean etc). id also clean the maf again just to be certain.
id check the eshaft sensor first since you were working around it.
but if you want things to check - check the neutral sensor on the tranny, check the eshaft position sensor and the throttle plate(make sure its clean etc). id also clean the maf again just to be certain.
id check the eshaft sensor first since you were working around it.
09-29-2010, 11:02 PM
#10
i dotn really think you have a problem. the variation is not that great. you have an idle that varies about 100 rpm .... thats no big deal really. that the rpm changes when you are holding your foot ont he throttle- well its drive by wire so you are just tasking the pcm for a certain amount of throttle and its adjusting it to how it wants to, essentially. the pcm has some latitude on what to do because of engine temp and other input.
but if you want things to check - check the neutral sensor on the tranny, check the eshaft position sensor and the throttle plate(make sure its clean etc). id also clean the maf again just to be certain.
id check the eshaft sensor first since you were working around it.
but if you want things to check - check the neutral sensor on the tranny, check the eshaft position sensor and the throttle plate(make sure its clean etc). id also clean the maf again just to be certain.
id check the eshaft sensor first since you were working around it.
My idle varies 200 rpm, I can attach a datalog to show yall, I should of done that before. as far as the rpm changing when im on the throttle, I understand what your saying. That could be it, but something inside of me tells me its not right, its not smooth. My engine shakes like a motor mount is broken, it really is a problem, I just dont know what it could be.
I will check those sensors, Apprecaite it Charlie
09-30-2010, 06:43 PM
#11
Okay so I uninstalled the Cobb AP and the idle got worse, it was definately more rough and bogged down every 3 or so seconds. So that rules out the Cobb AP possibly being the problem
I reinstalled my Cobb AP with MM's Base map and took a trip to autozone. I bought some MAF cleaner and cleaned my sensor since I couldnt the first time I checked it. It was a little dirty so I cleaned it and made sure the MAF O-ring was correctly seated. I reinstalled the MAF sensor and my idle is STILL rough, the cleaner really didnt effect it at all...
So heres what we can elminate from being a possible problem.
New Video will be uploaded of a ticking noise that could be part of my idle problem...
Ticking video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_dmszUa1Bc
Also I will be posting a Datalog I took today of my rough idle...
Datalog: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...en&output=html
I reinstalled my Cobb AP with MM's Base map and took a trip to autozone. I bought some MAF cleaner and cleaned my sensor since I couldnt the first time I checked it. It was a little dirty so I cleaned it and made sure the MAF O-ring was correctly seated. I reinstalled the MAF sensor and my idle is STILL rough, the cleaner really didnt effect it at all...
So heres what we can elminate from being a possible problem.
- MAF sensor
- BHR Ignition w/ new spark plugs
- Battery
- Cobb AP
New Video will be uploaded of a ticking noise that could be part of my idle problem...
Ticking video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_dmszUa1Bc
Also I will be posting a Datalog I took today of my rough idle...
Datalog: https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...en&output=html
Last edited by WTBRotary!; 09-30-2010 at 07:00 PM.
09-30-2010, 06:59 PM
#12
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Says video is not available. Edit: I see you are fixing that now!
Ticking huh..........need to hear it, but if you search on ticking, a few things will come up.
I doubt it's the new BHR wires, so the only other ticking I can recall is something over by the SSV or something.
Ticking huh..........need to hear it, but if you search on ticking, a few things will come up.
I doubt it's the new BHR wires, so the only other ticking I can recall is something over by the SSV or something.
09-30-2010, 07:12 PM
#14
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See if you can further locate the clicking noise. See if it's coming from the left side of the motor sort of in front of the oil filler neck
I'll go see if I can find that thread concerning the clicking from that area.
I'll go see if I can find that thread concerning the clicking from that area.
09-30-2010, 07:15 PM
#15
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Found it.................check it out.
Watch the video, but then try and read through all the posts, even though some are BS. There is a pic of the area I want you to really concentrate on about post #5 or so.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...clicking+noise
Oh yeah, and I'm not looking back through this thread, but verify that all your plug wire are seated correctly on BOTH ends.
Watch the video, but then try and read through all the posts, even though some are BS. There is a pic of the area I want you to really concentrate on about post #5 or so.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...clicking+noise
Oh yeah, and I'm not looking back through this thread, but verify that all your plug wire are seated correctly on BOTH ends.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 09-30-2010 at 07:23 PM.
09-30-2010, 07:20 PM
#16
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09-30-2010, 07:38 PM
#17
Found it.................check it out.
Watch the video, but then try and read through all the posts, even though some are BS. There is a pic of the area I want you to really concentrate on about post #5 or so.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...clicking+noise
Oh yeah, and I'm not looking back through this thread, but verify that all your plug wire are seated correctly on BOTH ends.
Watch the video, but then try and read through all the posts, even though some are BS. There is a pic of the area I want you to really concentrate on about post #5 or so.
https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...clicking+noise
Oh yeah, and I'm not looking back through this thread, but verify that all your plug wire are seated correctly on BOTH ends.
I just took another video for you, Im uploading now but it will take a few minutes...
From the video the noise seemed to come from the Driver side more than the passenger side but I could be wrong. The ticking/clicking noise also does increase with RPM...
Thanks for the help
Last edited by WTBRotary!; 09-30-2010 at 07:42 PM.
09-30-2010, 07:49 PM
#18
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Just trying to give you ideas. That last post makes me suspect a plug wire arc, but I haven't even seen the latest video yet..................nor could I really hear it all that well in the first one. Way too much loud rock in my younger days.
09-30-2010, 08:00 PM
#20
If it is a Plug wire Arc why is it happening now? It wasnt happening before SS13 like my rough idle was. I installed this ignition kit before SS13 and there was no noise like this until about a week or so ago... The wires havent moved or changed, idk why its doing this now, IF infact it is the wires.
Here is the newer video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DeFRHB2F0
Here is the newer video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DeFRHB2F0
09-30-2010, 08:05 PM
#22
Also If it is a spark plug wire loose and I fix it will my idle problem go away? Something tells me it wont because it wasnt making this noise until a week or so ago... and my idle was still rough when it wasnt making this noise. My idle was like this before the BHR ignition system was even installed so... 
09-30-2010, 08:08 PM
#23
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I'm with Zoom on this one now.
Again, check to make sure they are tight down at the plug end.
Then..........with the car off, I think I might try and move the plug wires away from an metal surface. Might have to wait for morning and light, but inspect them closely and make sure none gone burned up by touching the engine too much and possibly melting the insulation just enough????????
Again, check to make sure they are tight down at the plug end.
Then..........with the car off, I think I might try and move the plug wires away from an metal surface. Might have to wait for morning and light, but inspect them closely and make sure none gone burned up by touching the engine too much and possibly melting the insulation just enough????????
09-30-2010, 08:09 PM
#24
Administrator
go to the home depot and get a piece of rubber/vinyl tubing use it like a stethoscope. one end to your ear the other end in the engine bay. move it around to find the source
09-30-2010, 08:13 PM
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How's about you slide you hand down each plug wire while you have the other hand firnly planted on a metal surface........if it's arcing...........you'll find it!
I'm kidding of course!
Hard to tell because of the camera movement, but those plug wires look awfully close where they are running down out of the coils and down to the plugs.
I'm kidding of course!
Hard to tell because of the camera movement, but those plug wires look awfully close where they are running down out of the coils and down to the plugs.