profase

Alright so about 2-3 weeks ago my rx8 has been having weak startups when the engine is cold. I'm pretty sure it's not the battery because I got it checked and charged about 2 months ago. My engine was replaced last year (under warranty) along with the spark plugs and ignition coils. When starting cold, the engine sounds quieter, weaker as I said above, and it takes a couple turns (3-6) to start up (it eventually always does). 2 weeks ago I got my oil changed and I saw it was really dirty, so I got the clean up service on it as well. It starts up normally when it's warm/hot. Any ideas?

Thanks

Old Rotor

Do you have the updated starter and battery? Give us some history please.

profase

Alright, I bought the car 2008 in July. It had around 45000 miles on it. A few months later, with around 48000, the car wouldn't start, and I got the engine replaced under warranty due to lack on compression in the rotars. The whole thing was replaced. I also had replaced the spark plugs and ignition coils (along with the engine mounts).

In September of 09 I was in a front right accident that didn't affect my engine, although a good majority of my front end was replaced (~$9500 total). After that, car ran perfect except for a new but mild vibration. The guy at the body shop noticed a small "hitch" or hesitation in the engine startup, so he brought it over to Mazda and they said everything was fine. As a precaution, they charged the battery, and they said it started up fine 20+ times.

A few weeks ago, around 3, my car started this weak starting (almost reminiscent of the weak compression a year ago...) Got my oil changed with the clean out service 2 weeks ago, and the problem seemed to go away. On a few cold mornings (very few in Florida) it did the crappy starting again, but i just attributed it to the cold. However, tonight's cold start up was pretty bad - almost 30 seconds of it trying to start, although it eventually did.

So in response to the starter and battery... I have new starters as of Oct 2008. I don't know if that is considered "updated" as well. The battery was never replaced, so it's still the original.

EDZRIDE

iTrader: (1)

How do you know you got a new starter in October-08? Also, what year is your car? I think you should have the battery and charging system tested.

profase

I have my purchase order from when my engine got replaced in Oct 2008. It says that all of the spark plugs were replaced, the ignition coils, engine mounts, and a few other things (I had to actually pay for them, they weren't replaced for free under the warranty).

So I should go see if my battery and alternator are good? Some of the sounds are just leading me to think it could be the compression problem again...

The year is 2004.

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

You really should check and make sure you have the upgraded starter. There is a BIG difference between the classic starter and the upgraded starter.

volcomx31

iTrader: (4)

^what is the big difference?

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

If I remember correctly it is the speed at which the starter motor turns...but I could be wrong. Still looking for an explanation around here. Check this video though...

http://www.vimeo.com/3653485

profase

Ohh my bad, I kept on registerig "starter" as "spark plugs" for some dumb reason. Yes, if you coudl get that information about why the updated starter is better. Also, do you guys think that the updated starter would be free under the powertrain warranty, especially if I'm getting it because my car is on the brink of not starting?

DeViLbOi

iTrader: (1)

It used to be replaced under a TSB but that TSB has been removed for some reason. If I remember correctly Mazda said that it would still start so they didn't need to replace it under powertrain. Ill try and get ahold of RK and Jon316G later and see if they have the info hidden somewhere as to the differences between them all.

profase

Wow. I have a feeling the same thing would happen for me if I followed that video. A new battery would probably start her up a lot better, but the new starter... ahhh! I want it.

volcomx31

iTrader: (4)

i want that upgraded starter but it's pricey..

EDZRIDE

iTrader: (1)

It's only free under the B to B warranty but I would still check the battery connections first. Here's the TSB.

profase

Alright so a little update on my circumstances. One morning my car just wouldn't start, and it seemed as if the battery had gone. It had. I replaced the battery and she starts up quite well now. Still not as smooth as that video with the new starter, but as good as it did before.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

You're saying even the 2004's had the better starter if from an A/T ??? And they are completely swappable? I've been looking for a used 2005+ MT starter for months now....

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I thought the two starters mounted differently to the transmission.
I've never replaced a starter in an AT, but the illustrations I've seen look different than the MT.

AT starter on left, MT starter on right:

Chad D.

iTrader: (19)

my starter sux

Old Rotor

I joined here early enough to get all the "TSB" done as they came out.

elysium19

iTrader: (1)

Yah I'm really not sure myself....but wont go buying one unless I can confirm this.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

OK... thanks for the clarification.
So swapping the nosecone is all thats needed.

Isn't the motor (armature, commutator, brushes) the only difference between the models?
So instead of swapping out the pinion gears, reduction gear, shaft, etc can they just swap the "back-half" like I illustrated in the pic below?
Or is the drive/sun gear a different size requiring different pinion/planetary gears.

Vyndictive

iTrader: (28)

So. . . to make an upgraded starter all you need to do is remove your old crappy starter, but a starter from an A/T and then swap the nose-cone parts?

Interesting. . .