Better brakes for the 8?
12-01-2008, 07:15 PM
#1
Better brakes for the 8?
I'm in need of replacing pads and rotors, and I found these on Ebay. Just wondering if anyone's replaced the stock setup with something similar? It seems like a good deal...but we know what that could mean!
I've read all of the related threads and I know the stock brakes are some of the best out there. I also know that there will be inquiries into my driving style and why I would change the stock system. Answer...My 8 is my daily driver and the only thing I track is my bike. I'm just looking for equivelant performance and am wondering what the experts with experience think about changing into a system such as this. Thanks in advance!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-08...Q5fAccessories
I've read all of the related threads and I know the stock brakes are some of the best out there. I also know that there will be inquiries into my driving style and why I would change the stock system. Answer...My 8 is my daily driver and the only thing I track is my bike. I'm just looking for equivelant performance and am wondering what the experts with experience think about changing into a system such as this. Thanks in advance!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-08...Q5fAccessories
12-01-2008, 09:22 PM
#3
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I love the HP Plus, but then again, my car sees a track day about once every 6 weeks. IMO they're overkill for only street use.
12-01-2008, 11:08 PM
#4
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I searched on this a month ago and the consensus among members with respected opinions and experience under their belts was that if you're looking to upgrade from OEM and you just daily drive your car, go with Hawk Ceramic. So I bought them. And I like them... a lot.
If all you're looking for is equivalent performance to OEM... then uh why not go OEM?
If you mean equivalent performance to your bike, you won't get it.
If all you're looking for is equivalent performance to OEM... then uh why not go OEM?
If you mean equivalent performance to your bike, you won't get it.
12-02-2008, 09:48 AM
#8
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I clipped this response of mine from another recent similar post, and I think its relavant here as well.
I'm relatively new to the RX8, I have 2 track sessions in the advanced group at Sebring with my new RX8, but I have quite a bit of street and track experience dealing with high performance braking issues with my former car, which was a FWD Acura RSX Type S. My first comment is that relatively speaking the RX8 brakes are superb right out of the box. I seriously doubt that most people will overdrive the OEM brakes on the street.
That said, if you really want to stop faster, buy stickier/larger tires. The OEM brakes are fully capable of setting off the ABS at any speed you would safely encounter on the street. As a result, the limiting factor is not braking efficiency but tire traction.
If you do overdrive the OEM brakes because you have humongous tires and you drive like a lunatic, I would suggest Axxis Ultimates, as they have the best coefficient of friction and heat range for a street performance pad per dollar. If money is no object, try Carbotech Bobcats or Cobalt GT Sports. Any street performance pad is going to dust more than the OEM pads, get used to it.
If you track the RX8 more than once, you should be using dedicated track pads such as Carbotech XP10/XP8s or Cobalt XR2/XR5s. If I was going to spend money to upgrade the brakes for the track I would get a 2-piece floating hat front rotor. An interim lower cost upgrade would be to get a set of curved vane 1-piece rotors. But I had no issues whatsoever with track pads on OEM brakes and R-compound tires on the very brake intensive Sebring road course.
Spend your money elsewhere.
That said, if you really want to stop faster, buy stickier/larger tires. The OEM brakes are fully capable of setting off the ABS at any speed you would safely encounter on the street. As a result, the limiting factor is not braking efficiency but tire traction.
If you do overdrive the OEM brakes because you have humongous tires and you drive like a lunatic, I would suggest Axxis Ultimates, as they have the best coefficient of friction and heat range for a street performance pad per dollar. If money is no object, try Carbotech Bobcats or Cobalt GT Sports. Any street performance pad is going to dust more than the OEM pads, get used to it.
If you track the RX8 more than once, you should be using dedicated track pads such as Carbotech XP10/XP8s or Cobalt XR2/XR5s. If I was going to spend money to upgrade the brakes for the track I would get a 2-piece floating hat front rotor. An interim lower cost upgrade would be to get a set of curved vane 1-piece rotors. But I had no issues whatsoever with track pads on OEM brakes and R-compound tires on the very brake intensive Sebring road course.
Spend your money elsewhere.
Last edited by justjim; 12-02-2008 at 03:52 PM.
12-02-2008, 12:14 PM
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You really think so? I can tell you from first hand experience that your statement is incorrect. I have been on track with the Colbat XR2/GTS pads with Racing Brake 2-piece drilled/slotted rotors...braking distances were cut nearly in half versus the same pad combo on stock rotors. I think that is one hell of difference, myself. Yes, drilled/slotted tend to crack but you can always go with a slotted/dimpled rotor to help solve that problem.
12-02-2008, 01:07 PM
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You really think so? I can tell you from first hand experience that your statement is incorrect. I have been on track with the Colbat XR2/GTS pads with Racing Brake 2-piece drilled/slotted rotors...braking distances were cut nearly in half versus the same pad combo on stock rotors. I think that is one hell of difference, myself. Yes, drilled/slotted tend to crack but you can always go with a slotted/dimpled rotor to help solve that problem.
12-02-2008, 02:12 PM
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^Obviously, you have never driven this setup before. I can say honestly half the distance because I have seen/felt it first hand in my many ride-a-longs in our cars. On stock rotors with our Cobalt pad setup, coming into turn 1 at VIR, braking had to start at about 400-300 ft, with the same car on Racing Brake slotted/drilled rotors and Cobalt pad setup, we didn't have to start breaking until 200-150 ft before the turn.
Last edited by I8U; 12-02-2008 at 02:18 PM.
12-02-2008, 03:56 PM
#13
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You really think so? I can tell you from first hand experience that your statement is incorrect. I have been on track with the Colbat XR2/GTS pads with Racing Brake 2-piece drilled/slotted rotors...braking distances were cut nearly in half versus the same pad combo on stock rotors. I think that is one hell of difference, myself. Yes, drilled/slotted tend to crack but you can always go with a slotted/dimpled rotor to help solve that problem.
12-02-2008, 04:06 PM
#14
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^Obviously, you have never driven this setup before. I can say honestly half the distance because I have seen/felt it first hand in my many ride-a-longs in our cars. On stock rotors with our Cobalt pad setup, coming into turn 1 at VIR, braking had to start at about 400-300 ft, with the same car on Racing Brake slotted/drilled rotors and Cobalt pad setup, we didn't have to start breaking until 200-150 ft before the turn.
What is the driver profile like? The only thing I can see is the race tires have more grip and so the braking force, which previously was more than sufficient for street tires, is now less than the tire grip and so stockers aren't capable of activating the ABS anymore. Also, perhaps the initial bite is harder where the stock rotors took a bit more pedal travel for engagement and the driver is a bit smoother rolling onto the brakes. Regardless, halving the distance is hard to believe for me. Perhaps the stock rotors were overheating and it's actually the extra cooling that's combating the fade?
12-02-2008, 04:12 PM
#15
On the track where you would have exceeded the OEM pads temp range and with R-compound tires, yes I would agree with you. Your'e talking apples and oranges here with track experience vs. street. On the street I don't believe you would see a significant difference. Just to be clear I use the Cobalt XR1/XR5 combo on the track with R-compounds so I have some experience with the comparison.
He is not talking about stock PADS, but stock ROTORS.
From what he has said the only change in the setup sounds like the rotors with pads & tires being constant.
12-02-2008, 06:16 PM
#16
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On the track where you are really heating things up with R-compound sticky tires, with the thermal advantages of the curved vane, and the thermal and weight advantage of a 2-piece floating hat rotor, I can see that a different rotor would be a distinct advantage.
Now if you go to a larger rotor you are not only affecting the thermal dissapation but you are changing the clamping force on the rotor. This brings with it a whole host of problems with front to rear brake bias unless you make appropriate changes at the rear. Nonetheless, if the OEM brake pad and rotor combination can instantly set off the ABS, it is the tires that are the limiting factor in stopping the car.
12-02-2008, 09:08 PM
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12-02-2008, 09:11 PM
#18
Don't be too discouraged, there are some of us listening and appreciate your input.
BTW, how fun was Mid-O this year in the rain? weeeeeee!
12-02-2008, 09:16 PM
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All this talk of track grade pads and rotors when the OP simply wanted a street pad/rotor set. Lol.
The heat dissipating benefits of a 2 piece rotor and frictional operating range of trackable pad would not be perceivable (nor suitable in terms of pad compound) on the street.
The heat dissipating benefits of a 2 piece rotor and frictional operating range of trackable pad would not be perceivable (nor suitable in terms of pad compound) on the street.
12-02-2008, 09:20 PM
#20
All this talk of track grade pads and rotors when the OP simply wanted a street pad/rotor set. Lol.
The heat dissipating benefits of a 2 piece rotor and frictional operating range of trackable pad would not be perceivable (nor suitable in terms of pad compound) on the street.
The heat dissipating benefits of a 2 piece rotor and frictional operating range of trackable pad would not be perceivable (nor suitable in terms of pad compound) on the street.
If I were looking for every last bit of stopping power on the street (not sure why but for arguments sake?) I would run these all the time.
12-02-2008, 09:38 PM
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I'm in need of replacing pads and rotors, and I found these on Ebay. Just wondering if anyone's replaced the stock setup with something similar? It seems like a good deal...but we know what that could mean!
I've read all of the related threads and I know the stock brakes are some of the best out there. I also know that there will be inquiries into my driving style and why I would change the stock system. Answer...My 8 is my daily driver and the only thing I track is my bike. I'm just looking for equivelant performance and am wondering what the experts with experience think about changing into a system such as this. Thanks in advance!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-08...Q5fAccessories
I've read all of the related threads and I know the stock brakes are some of the best out there. I also know that there will be inquiries into my driving style and why I would change the stock system. Answer...My 8 is my daily driver and the only thing I track is my bike. I'm just looking for equivelant performance and am wondering what the experts with experience think about changing into a system such as this. Thanks in advance!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/04-08...Q5fAccessories
12-02-2008, 09:45 PM
#22
I don't belive in hard and fast rules for anything in life so I don't like to say things like that. I'm sure in this situation more than likely he would want the bobcats because of the excessive noise and dust from the xp line. But the XP8's could be used as street pads if you wanted to deal with that. Just sayin. could.
12-02-2008, 10:16 PM
#23
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Believe me, I'm listening to what you have to say, but from my vehicle engineer perspective, it's a little hard to believe a rotor change could halve the stopping distance of a car. Notice I'm trying to brainstorm reasons; from a logical standpoint your claims don't add up to simply the rotor change. Acceleration, or deceleration in this case, is the square of force and so to halve the stopping distance would require FOUR times the stopping force. A simple rotor change would leave the lever arm of the braking system the same and so clamping force should not change. The only way I can see it happening is the superior thermal properties of the two-piece eliminating fade, but that is a lot of heatsoak for the standard rotor to go through. You might have claimed to see it first hand, but remember this is the internet, and more than that, as an engineer I really want to know the REASON WHY. I'm not willing to simply accept X comments at face value unless I find the logic behind it, and I'm trying hard at the moment to do so.
12-02-2008, 10:22 PM
#24
Believe me, I'm listening to what you have to say, but from my vehicle engineer perspective, it's a little hard to believe a rotor change could halve the stopping distance of a car. Notice I'm trying to brainstorm reasons; from a logical standpoint your claims don't add up to simply the rotor change. Acceleration, or deceleration in this case, is the square of force and so to halve the stopping distance would require FOUR times the stopping force. A simple rotor change would leave the lever arm of the braking system the same and so clamping force should not change. The only way I can see it happening is the superior thermal properties of the two-piece eliminating fade, but that is a lot of heatsoak for the standard rotor to go through. You might have claimed to see it first hand, but remember this is the internet, and more than that, as an engineer I really want to know the REASON WHY. I'm not willing to simply accept X comments at face value unless I find the logic behind it, and I'm trying hard at the moment to do so.
You are talking stopping distance, he is talking braking distance into a corner where the car does not come to a stop.
12-02-2008, 10:41 PM
#25
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They're still pretty related; both are measures of stopping distances and a function of the force of the braking system. My question would be, what other variables changed at the same time? Also, was the test done over multiple days and how experienced was the driver on the circuit?