hey, Jedi54, nice wheels!
 

:confused:Our blue beastie, 2004, failed it's safety inspection, the rotors are shot, rusty, maybe cracked. still stops good in spite of minimal pads on front, but we were told that no aftermarket rotors work well and that we need to do original replacement rotors, don't know about pads. I would think that if aftermarket rotors are so bad, I would have seen this here, so we're not sure what to do. Help/advice would be appreciated, thanks.

aftermarket rotors are not 'bad'. they're lying to you.

Comlete and utter nonsense. Rotors are only shot when they are worn below the minimum thickness (which requires measuring with a micrometer), or if they are cracked which is not likely on a daily driver unless you also track the car (and you would certainly know it if they were cracked). Rust is irrelevant. Pad deposits can be scraped off or machined off. Aftermarket rotors work as well as OEM rotors, blanks are best, slots don't really do much, and drilled rotors may be more likely to crack and don't do anything either.
Centric makes a good inexpensive aftermarket OEM blank rotor among many others.

Great Thread. I have a problem. I recently did my brakes and I am using cross drilled and slotted rotors from Brakelabs, and Hawk HP Plus pads. My previous setup was the same cross drilled and slotted rotors from Brakelabs but I used Bendix Ceramic pads from Autozone. I put them on and drove it and there was a lot of squeal. I figured I'd drive it and let them wear in, in hopes that they'd be fine. Its been 2 weeks and so I called Hawk Performance and told them my issue. The guy told me to take some sand paper and sand down the pads and then put them back on and take it on a road go up to 50-55 and go down to 5mph without engaging the ABS, I still had the issue. I went back into my garage and opened them up again and noticed the sliders that the caliper bolts onto weren't moving so I went to autozone and got some lubrication and lubricated it and it slides better but I still have that issue and I am finally a bit frustrated. I did spray the rotors down with brake parts cleaner a few times and took a paper towel and wiped it down too. The clips are in the right order and are not sticking out and touching the rotor at all so I thought of just about everything. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

so you only changed pads or rotors too?

Both man.

Brake squeal is caused by vibrations between the caliper piston and the back of the pad backing plate, not by the pad face and rotor interface. To minimize or completely eliminate squeal you have 2 tools,
1. high temp synthetic brake lube
2. the OEM pad shims

These 2 items work to dampen the vibrations between the piston face and the backing plate and work to minimize or eliminate the vibrations that cause squeal. You likely didn't use the OEM shims when you switched to the Hawk pads which are known to be noisy (some pads are more prone to squeal than others). Also, based on your description you only lubed the sliders and not the top, bottom, and most importantly the backs of the pads (obviously you don't want any grease on the pad friction face).

Get some OEM shims from the dealer if you didn't keep them, and put high temp synthetic brake grease between the shims and the pad backing plate, between the piston face and the shims, and on the tops and bottoms of the backing plate where it sits in the keepers. This should minimize or eliminate squealing.

Oh ok. My old pads had thin mettalic pieces which I decided to forgo so I will put them back on and re grease the pads. Thanks justjim, I appreciate it.

Do the 2004 AT Grand Touring models have sport or standard suspension??
Just wanting to double check cause I'm doing my brakes tomorrow.

The AT Grand Touring have the sport suspension pkg.
Kinda of a day late and you may have already found this out.

I forgot about thsi thread.

So I did what justjim said and got OEM shims for my brakes. I noticed that the squeal was gone but it came back after a while and I still have it under light braking but the squeal is gone in heavy braking. I called up my rotor company and pad company (HAWK) and they said that it is probably just the pads and their compound and that race pads are louder. They told me that I should probably get some regular pads for the street and just switch over to my race pads when I track.

Also, the rotor company (brakelabs) said the same thing and that if my rotors have a grinding noise then I might need new rotors. Which I think my rotors are wearing a bit. I'd like to run my rotors for a while and try different pads, perhaps the OEM. What does everyone think?

Note on pad buildup on rotors:
I had this happen on my last session at Laguna Seca. I was getting to where i wasn't chicken lifting going through turn 1 and breaking pretty hard into 2. The pedal started pulsing, car shaking, thought it was a warpped rotor (I previously had a 300ZXTT that realy did warp rotors). Looked at the rotors after i got off the track and the were all blue and had some smear marks on them. Figured i would just drive it and see what happens. Well a week later with no special actions taken, its fine. Brakes are back smooth as ever and they don,t squeal like they did before the track day. This is on OEM pads.

Moral of the story, if your brakes squeal go to Laguna Seca and fix them.

^ think you got the moral wrong. If you go to Lagua Seca and drive fast, use real track pads/ not OEM pads or you'll get rotor deposit/melt the pads. Your pulsing pedal was likey just your ABS, even with traction control off, your ABS will work.

You are right that track pads would be a good upgrade befor the next track day. But the pulsing i was talking about was not the ABS. The first session that day was in pouring rain and i found out how well the ABS and DSC worked and what they feel like. As the tarck dried out I turned the DSC off and started pushing harder. After the last session the brakes pulsed for the whole 300 Mi. trip home and slowely went away over the next week.

justjim,

first of all thanks for this FAQ and your time.
The FAQ gave answers to the majority of the question I had about rotors and pads as I am planning to change them.

As I am "daily driver with only the occaisional spirited driving" after you FAQ I decided to buy OEM pads only.

As regards rotor I refer to your words "Aftermarket rotors work as well as OEM rotors, blanks are best, slots don't really do much, and drilled rotors may be more likely to crack and don't do anything either. Centric makes a good inexpensive aftermarket OEM blank rotor among many others. "

1) Do I understand you proprely that I will feel no difference if I buy blank Centric rotors intead of OEM rotors? Or OEM rotors are bit better than Centric?

2) I am really worry about buying cheaper Centric rotors (comparing to the OEM) if they do not provide the same safety comparing with OEM. Do you thing Centric rotors the same good as OEM rotors?

3) Have you used Centric rotors?

4) Whether pair Centric rotors with OEM pads is decent one?

5) There are 2 versions of each Centric rotor: (1) Premium Brake Rotor-Preferred and (2) Power Alloy Discs.
Could you please comment what is the difference and which one to choose best?

6) I have front sport suspension rotors with Automatic transmission. Kindly ask you to confirm that I have choosen properly the set of rotors for my RX8:

Front - Part number - 120.45071 (Sport Susp; A/T);

http://extranet.soleniuminc.com/Cent...5C12045071.jpg

Rear - Part number - 120.45072 (All)

http://extranet.soleniuminc.com/Cent...5C12045072.jpg

Many thanks for the help in advance!

Wizard 3000
The Centric rotors are a good choice for an OEM replacement. The ones you posted are a good choice. They make a power slot which is the same rotor with slots, I wouldn't bother to pay for slots. I used the Centric blanks on my previous FWD Acura which was a lot harder on brakes than the better braked Mazda RX8. I put about 16 track days on them in addition to about 50,000 miles. I use them on our Lemons racecar which only sees track time. I'm still on OEM rotors on my Mazda with 90,000 miles and 6 track days. You will not notice any difference with Centric blanks compared to the OEM.

In my opinion people worry too much about their rotors, and often make unsubstantiated claims to make themselves feel better about having spent obscene amounts of money on rotors. To me the only real improvement in the one-piece cast iron rotor is curved vanes which are available for higher cost. Two-piece rotors are an improvement for cars that see track time but the RX8 has excellent brakes and doesn't really need them unless the car is heavily modified. Track pads and ducting are more practical and cheaper. I track my RX8 with Cobalt track pads and R-compound tires and daily drive it with OEM pads all on the same OEM rotors. When they wear too thin or begin to crack I will replace them with cheap blank rotors, probably Centric.

Other people will have different opinions, many of which are influenced by marketing claims, something they saw on a more expensive car, or as I said above to justify money they already spent.
удача

justjim, thanks for you reply to my post! :bowdown:

Following you post I have made a search on Centric rotors for RX8.
Here is the table of the Centric rotors from the Centric's website:

http://i001.radikal.ru/1103/88/9f401f811041.jpg

I was trying to find Power Alloy Discs in onlinestores as the next Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor are more expensive and differs only by slots which I don't need.
As I understand Power Alloy Discs should be better model than C-TEK Standard Rotor.

Unfortunately in all stores I called to I was told that they do not see anywhere Power Alloy Discs in stock.
So basically I have to buy either C-TEK Standard Rotor or the more expensive Power Slot Slotted Brake Rotor.

What do you think, what should I choose? :dunno:
What would you do in my place?

Thanks in advance for you reply.

All your other sage advice is spot on, but here, not so much. There's one piece and there's two piece rotors. I doubt many would argue one piece stop better, but you seem to miss the "reason to be". Two piece weigh considerably less, and therefore, as a heatsink, they are designed for better cooling to keep temps down, making them even more expensive for sure.

But the real point of improvement is weight reduction, and sprung spinning weight at that - and on all four corners of the car. I'm sure you'd agree pounds are hard to come by, and this is easy.

So the cost is not spent to improve braking but to lose weight and improve suspension dynamics. Modified or not is not the reason to be... and need is relative ;)

The Power Slots if you could find them and if you can afford them are a better rotor mostly because of the directional vanes. However, for a daily driver with OEM pads the C-Tek standard rotors are more than adequate and I would get them instead of the slotted ones. If the slotted ones come with directional vanes that would be the reason to get them, not the slots which are uneccesary.

It's all a question of how much money you want to spend and what you get in return. From a stopping distance standpoint, the C-teks are just as good. If you like a little bling and knowing you have directional vanes makes you feel warm and gooey inside then go for it. Otherwise don't lose any sleep over it.

All of your salient points are echoed in the text of my Brake FAQ and I agree with everything you said. It's just that Wizard3000 is just doing daily driving with OEM pads and the rather large expense of 2-piece rotors seems like overkill and unecessary for his type of driving. It's a lot of money to reduce unsprung weight, better spent on lightweight wheels I would think, but you make a valid point.

justjim,
I don't even know how to thank you for your time and replies given.
Thanks a lot.
:icon_tup: :bowdown:

How about goove in the rotor? That would require resurfacing right?

Grooves aren't as big a problem as you might think. The pads just wear to match the grooves. I have 90+K miles on my OEM rotors and a lot of track days and they are pretty groovy. My brakes are smooth as silk but they make a kind of whirring noise under hard braking that might be related to the grooves, but it's not worth the time and effort to turn the rotors. It's not the grooves I keep an eye on, it's the thickness and the surface checking from track heat cycles.

Thanks a lot. That's what I thought but as you know reading so many posts online about people turning their rotor because of grooves worries me. It is nice to have an expert for confirmation. :)

I bought cheap ass 30$ rotors on one car I have and they have nice ridges and grooves galore, but other than that it doesn't seem to matter much, at least for a DD car. On my RX-8 I have RB high quality rotors and before that the OEM rotors. Neither had grooves even after many many track days and much abuse. I think it's just a matter of the quality/strength of the steel used for the rotor blanks. Better, harder steel, less grooves.

I came in here looking for the thickness dimensions/specs on the front and rear rotors (more specifically their thickness prior to use/wear) and thought I was going to have to ask for the dimensions. Then I saw Wizard-3000's post. Are those numbers accurate for a BNIB OEM rotor? 24mm front and 18.2 rear?

So I've tried searching and I can't really find what I'm looking for.

First I'll start with, I bought my car with 15k miles, it now has 17k. The brakes squeek every now and then, but it's only just louder then road noise. I just imagine it's dust/buildup. I know the car was tracked a couple of times, and I haven't bothered to take a look, but I'm assuming at the moment they're fine.

But when the day does come I need new ones, I was wondering what the OEM pads are, and where you can purchase them?

Also this is my DD, so quite and clean are preferred to heat resistance and resistance to fading. (I doubt i'll need to do 6 panic stops in a row, if I do I'll have bigger concerns then brake fade).

The brake pads that came on the car had a tendency to squeal. You should be due for a new front set. Just go to your auto parts store and tell them what your looking for when your set to replace them. They most likely have different brands and different models within each brand.

Hey, does anyone have the part number for a replacement kit for the brake master cylinder ?
Also any info on availability and cost.
THANKS

Great thread Jim, any good resources for comparisons of the 2-piece rotors vs. the one piece, and who carries the 2-piece rotors?

I recently purchased an RX-8 race car! So somewhat new to the 8. The car has Cobalt pads on it now, sounds like you like them, I'll stay with them.

I believe TH Motorsports, one of the site vendors, has the 2 piece brake rotors available for our car. I don't know what organization or class you are racing your car in. Many more vendors have big brake upgrades available.

Thanks for the reply! It's an SCCA EP car. Truthfully I'm not even sure I can use the 2-piece rotors, but I need to put the car on a diet. The more I think about it, I probably can't :(

Justjim thanks for such an informative thread. I've one question. I believe I have build up on my rotors as you've described. Rotors and pads are stock. Can I simply rebed the existing rotors and pads to eliminate the pulsing or do I have to replace the pads with a higher temp pad to melt off residue? My 8 is 2004 A/T Touring.

"Use the steel wool and brake cleaner or Brillo pad to scrub off the build up. Since this deposit was emitted from the brake pads at high temperature therefore it may not be easy to remove the deposit without heating it up, in this case you will have to heat up the rotor surface with a torch and repeat the scrubbing with coarser steel wool."

read more here http://forums.racingbrake.com/showthread.php?t=73

CPA - I'm just down the road from you in Trophy Club. Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Thanks Spin9K - great info

I purchased my 2008 GT in December of 2011 knowing I had to do the brakes. There was a lot of shake and just figured the rotors were warped.

I have finally got time to look into getting new rotors (shake was annoying the crap out of me and getting worse) and was searching around here looking for replacements and came across this thread. Thought to myself, this is worth a shot, let me try it.

Well crap. Apparently I have thrown away a few good sets of rotors on other vehicles I have owned! I cleaned theses rotors up and they are as good as new. WOW! I hit them with a 4 1/2" hand grinder with a wire wheel and that is all it took. I will try attaching a picture of the before and you can definitely see sections "that are not like the other".

Thanks. Incredible information that saved me several hundred bucks. :)

^ Try setting up a DIY instructions on what you did.

Hi,

I didn't quite understand if this was mentioned in the first post and didn't find it in the thread:

Are the front and rear pads the same for both the sport and base suspension or are they different?

They are different. The sport package has larger front brake calipers and rotors, so the pads will coincide with the size of the calipers.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys. But I'm fairly confident that I am correct.

Sorry for the double post here, but my answer was incomplete. If am not mistaken, from what I read in the first post of this thread, the rear brakes are the same between sport and base.

RX-8 Shinka Brake Question
 

Hi "Guys"!
My Wife is a long time RX owner (two RX7's and current RX8 2005 Shinka - MANUAL).
She's a "spirited" driver :cool: in her heart (actually pretty skilled when she pushes it) but nowadays is pretty much just doin' the commute thing.
Car has about 50K and needs brakes. Time was when I'd do it, but don't have the place or time, so I've got to rely on a shop (much to my GREAT dismay since I'm a bit of a perfectionist!).
The main Q is - there seems to be some confusion at both the shops I got quotes from as to if the Shinka has the Sports package, since that has different brakes than the "standard" RX8.
I'm inclined to say yes, it's the sports brakes as the Shinka was a special top of the line package.

Did it have special brakes, or the same as the Sports package?

The other Q was general advice - One shop quotes ~$500 for all 4 corners with "Ceramic" (yeah, right) pads AND new rotors, 2 yr Warranty. Claims he won't turn 'em "because they will warp again" (my BS indicator started ringing at this point!). Second shop quoted just over $1K to include new rotors claiming Fronts were like $329 and Rears $250 for the rotors, but HE wanted to turn them and said he never has problems doing it. 1 yr Warranty.

The second shop sounds like he's using quality parts (or just gouging!) and I'm concerned the 1st guy isn't, plus the BS about needing new rotors and turning doesn't work (since it's usually deposits ANYWAY!). Comments, thoughts, thrown rocks, all appreciated! :yesnod:

Thanks so much in advance

PuterPro

all 6-speeds are sport suspension. Nothing special with the brakes. Shinka's had different shocks but brakes are the same.

find out what the guy is giving you for rotors and pads at each place. $500 is good if it's Hawk Ceramics (~$150 all 4) and Centric Premium Rotors (about ~$250 shipped all 4). I'm willing to argue that the Centric Premiums are the best all around factory replacement and usually cheaper and better quality than most anything out there.

Hi,

Is this the correct size brake pads for OEM brakes?

Thanks so much in advance!

(323 mm) diameter front discs

Brake pads size - Length -137.5 mm
Height - 62 mm
Thickness -16.8 mm

(302 mm) diameter rear discs

Brake pads size - Length -105.6 mm
Height - 43 mm
Thickness -15 mm

is there any other cars with bigger brakes that will bolt up to our cars instead of buying a big brake kit?

good question, i wondered this also. Like adapting the evo's brembos etc etc.

I do not come to this site often, it's been a long time since I've checked in. I've got an '04 RX8 that I just had in the shop for an engine issue, which was apparently a false alarm.

They did an inspection and told me the front rotors and pads are in need of replacing. I got a quote of $533 to replace just the front. I don't know who makes the gear, it wasn't put in the paperwork. I could call and see if they will tell me.

But looking at the post a few up, from fuz, 4 rotors for $250, and assuming pads are about $100, I have a feeling their quote is a little high.

I've never had to replace rotors on a car before, so I wouldn't want to do it myself, I don't have any equipment/area to do it anyway.

Is it feasible that I could buy the rotors and pads online and then have the shop put them on? Seems like something a shop would not do.

I was looking at this as well. Specifically the CTS-V brembo brakes, they are SUPER cheap to purchase (vs evo/350z/370 brembos).

Call them in advance and ask. Some do, and some dont.

Has anyone ever experienced overheating in their braking system, such as a weird wear pattern on their rotors? The inside inch is clean and shiny and then as it goes to the outside, it looks like brake pad material is stuck to the rotor. Running HP+ on OEM rotors (both new sets)