Daemos

So I am going to purchase an RX8 today if all goes well, and the first thing I want to change is the suspension, so if I get the car, I will be buying suspension, asap.

Sorry if this post gets a little long, I'm trying to answer any questions before they come up.

The car will be primarily street driving, and the occasional autox when I have time to go and compete. Now in Autox I don't really car about class rankings, as I go there to have fun, not to be the most competitive in my class, but that doesn't mean I don't want to have a fast lap time.

The roads here suck, badly.

Now the type of stiffness I am already used to (which I want to be softer then) was on my 2003 Sentra SER Spec V, it had Ksport Kontrol Coilovers 8kg front and 7kg rear. Now for those who are not familiar with the car, the sentra has a rear beam in the back, it DOES not help ride at all, and the Ksports have REALLY poor valving choices for it's shocks, on smooth roads the ride was uh 'bouncy' like if you drove behind it you could see the car oscillate up and down, really REALLY bad ride, on bad or 'normal' roads here, the rear end would bounce up and down off the road, hard braking on these roads around corners would cause the rear end to swing out, not good, the whole suspension was junk. Now if I had to really diagnosis the ride quality being bad, everything came from the rear, if I just hit these roads or parts with the front, it was a stiff ride, but livable, but once the bumps hit the rear, it was bad.

Now I've ridden in similar cars, using konis and Ground Controls @ 350f/400r and the car was MUCH more controlled, and was much better at absorbing anything basically, and the ride was smoother.

With that in mind, I DO NOT want to have any cheap or crappy shocks like the ksports again, it was a mistake I don't want to repeat.

Stock the RX8 rides very comfy to me

I have been trying to take advice from:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123666252 (these have ksport shock dynos)

I also don't need anything fancy, Sway Bars I'm pretty much sold on Racing beat, simple, non adjustable, that's fine with me. I usually only want to adjust the shocks, keep things simple for me, because making it too complicated will only make things worse. I am basically a 'set-it and forget it' type person. Something like the KW Variant 3s are WAY too complicated for me, seriously...individual rebound and compression, that would just screw me up.

I'd like to have something, that rides MUCH better than my old Ksports (which I think is easily possible, as using GCs and Konis with the same Spring rates made everything 100% better on my old car) Good handling, and not a very low drop.

The car WILL be winter driven, will not change the suspension for the winter.

I have been comparing the following setups:
Racing Beat Springs/Koni Shocks (I worry though that the springs will be too soft for my liking)
Eibach Pro street Coilovers (I can't find any solid information on them, and for coilovers they lack pillow ball mounts)
Mazdaspeed Coilovers (again same with the Eibachs, no real information)
SRmotorsports Coilovers (again basically no information about them)
Ohlins Coilovers (have lots of information, the ride will be forsure amazing, just Ohlins has almost no customer service here in North America)

Anything else I should consider? Does anyone have any info I can use or opinions?

SouthFL

From the read, seems like the stock suspension will suit your needs perfectly.

I track this car almost every month on road courses and it handles wonderfully in stock form- that's the beauty of this car.

If you decide to spend 2 grand anyhow, there will be plenty of people to chime in with their 2 cents.

Good luck.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Daemos:
I highly suggest getting some Koni's and Tein-S (or H) Tech Springs. It'll cost you less then $1K and should be a great improvement over stock without negatively affecting the ride on a daily basis.

The best place to get suspension upgrades for your 8 is through one of our great forum vendors; DPE.

Let me find you some links...

Koni vs. Tokico on Track

Koni & Tein package sale

Daemos

SouthFL: Stock suspension rides too soft, as well has too much body roll. It handles very well, but I do not like the amount of body roll it has.

Jedi54: I'm just worried the springs are too soft to make much of a difference. The RacingBeat seem to be the sitffest springs, for the drop, the Eslipser ones are the stiffest, but you drop so much you lose precious suspension travel.

Like I said I'd be okay with Konis and 400lb springs, and this is on a car with mc phearson struts in the front and a rear beam in the back. That's livable to me.

The doublewishbone front and multilink rear combined with a much stiffer chassis with more suspension travel at the same spring rates would most likely be better riding.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

updated my post with links.

Oh, here's an awesome thread with Spring Rates and other suspension info:
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-wheels-tires-brakes-suspension-55/spring-rates-other-basic-suspension-info-79096/

Daemos

The question is...with the Stech springs are you lowering too much, that you lose too much suspension travel?

The rates are stiffer than the RacingBeats but the racing beats lower much less, giving you much more suspension travel, which is needed on rougher roads.

SouthFL

You don't need a stiff ride for good handling (as mentioned).

The Koni or D-Spec + your spring of choice route is popular.

Mazdaspeed springs will offer a higher spring rate than other aftermarket springs.

MS setup = High spring rate/ damper + thinner swaybar
RB setup = Lower spring rate + thicker swaybar


If you're concerned about excessive body roll on city streets, your value system is different than mine ......

Stock suspension, Sebring Turn 17 at WOT

Daemos

SouthFL: Nice picture

From the testing the Mazdaspeed springs ARE not stiffer than other ones (that's the only real scientific evidence we have on what the Mazdaspeed spring rates are) as everything else about those springs have been nothing but pure speculation.

Which is why I discounted them, and did not include them.

Good handling starts with properly matched shocks and springs, which, if they are properly matched, will provide a good ride. which is why for the most part when you buy Ohlins coilovers, you generally get a stock ride, with much stiffer springs. However their lack of support in North America should ANYTHING go wrong is basically non-existent.

From what I've read, too many people seem fixated on that the 'spring rate' will determine ride....which it is only part of the equation.

Like I said, my Ksports on my sentra had 8kg/7kg fronts, they rode like crap, put the same rates on ground controls on konis on the same car, it rides like a completely different car, firm, but MUCH more compliant, and it didn't bounce all over the place.

I want to eliminate body roll by roll bars and by higher spring rates. But I don't know anyone that's experimented a lot with their RX8 suspensions and then tested them.

SouthFL

Been there, done that.
Just begging the question (based on your mostly street/noncompetitive use)- Why?

Cheers.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

forget spring and strut combinations...you want coilovers and i went with KW Variant 3s. they are expensive but you get what you pay for...quality. They are very modifiable: bump and rebound, and ride height is easily adjustable. The ride quality on their factory settings is similar to stock but i have heard a few complaints from back seat riders. I believe the spring settings are 10kg/7kg...body roll is a thing of the past and turn in is quite crisp. only perceivable negative the car has gone from neutral/slight understeer to slight oversteer...i like this but it does increase the skill level necessary to drive precisely.

going with this though takes you out of bstock and into STU so modify your wheels and tires accordingly.

Daemos

Fun

I like the way a planted car feels, around any corner. I used to autox a lot a few years back when I had more time, but I never went to compete in a class, I went to improve upon my self, and my times. Although I did compete with friends who went with me.

Honestly though, I don't know if I could explain it other than the fact that although I drive very little (9000km/year) I use my car to have fun.

That's the reason my sentra was modified, although before some guy put me through a lamppost, I was planning on ripping out the Ksports for Koni and Ground controls. But fun was also the reason I had a procharger on my sentra, it made 240whp at 4.5psi, and I was looking for 9.5psi. I don't street race, I don't go to those things, and it didn't see too much track time in the past few years, but it was more for personal enjoyment than anything else.

Daemos

That's the thing that scares me about the Variant 3s, you can adjust it too much, and too much tinkering with suspension esp causes uh things to go badly.

Quite frankly I love the Variant 3s, but I am scared of them.

Those rates are quite high though if they are 10kg/7kg :| Maybe too high...do the KWs come with pillowball top mounts for the front?

mac11

iTrader: (1)

I was bad....i didn't read the whole thread. From reading the first post only I would say put on the sway bars with the stock suspension and see if you like it. Those should take out all of the body roll and leave you with a softly sprung car for everyday comfort. .02

SouthFL

I was going to also recommend the KW V3's.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

For coilovers I am liking the Tein Flex's. I also know an owner that has a set that he is using with good results.

for his purposes I would think with the racingbeat bars the mazdaspeed coils/struts would be pretty decent. and much cheaper than coilovers. That would deff be a much inproved suspension from stock for performance while also being cost effective and 'set it and forget it' all at the same time.

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

coilovers are nice but sooooo expensive.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

no those cost like $200 extra but they are available, the stock topmounts have been serving me fine...the rubber looked like new.

and for me im not gonna touch the modified ride height now got the camber put where i like it and changing the ride height will change the camber.

the rear suspension is really great on tthe stock settings from the factory so that just leaves the front and i havent really played with it but havent had any real complaints so far.

Daemos

MazdaspeedFeras: If the rates are really at 10kg/7kg I think it might be too stiff to keep the tires planted on the road properly here, not sure.

But does KW preset the settings right from the factory all the same for every coilover?

I've also been reading up on the Zeal Xs but they seem to have much reduced suspension travel.

Feras

iTrader: (1)

im not really sure i'll have to make sure those are the actual spring rates, its what i remember off the top of my head.

DPE

iTrader: (1)

I can chime in a bit here, having played around with a few different setups. Albeit the ones on the cheaper end of the spectrum . . .

It's always good to see someone point out that high spring rates do NOT equal a hard ride. The key if you want to use a lot of spring rate to control body motions is to match the high rate springs with the proper dampers. As you quickly figured out when going from Ksport to Koni/GC.

The options you are looking at vary quite a bit in price. I'm not sure what Ohlins are going for these days, but I'm guessing it's in the $2500+ range. Down to Konis with springs, which we have packages going for $740. In some sense you get what you pay for, but at the same time it seems like for what you want the car to do you can spend on the low side and be happy with it.

I also see where you mention some of the coilovers not coming with pillowball upper mounts, such as the Mazdaspeed and Eibach. This is far less of a concern on the RX-8 due to the suspension design. For a strut suspension like your front was on the SE-R, it's a big deal as the strut itself sort-of acts as a control arm. But on a double wishbone front suspension like the RX-8, the coilover assembly isn't tasked with carrying as much of the load nor does it have any effect on camber where adustable pillowball mounts come in really handy on strut-type suspensions. Point being, I wouldn't not purchase an RX-8 coilover because it doesn't come with pillowball upper mounts.

At any rate, for what you want, it seems like a shock/spring/swaybar combo would be a fine way to go. You could maintain a decent ride, if you get RB springs or Tein H-techs you won't go too awfully low, and I think you'd be pleased with how much more responsive the car is. And you could install it all and pretty much forget about it; if you want easy shock adjustability, get Tokicos (which are also capable of going notably softer than Konis to keep the ride smooth). If you don't care about that so much, the Konis do a great job and provide a bit sportier feel than the Tokicos in our opinion. And combined with swaybars, you could do everything for right around $1100 to $1200 depending on what you choose.

One other thought is Tein Basics. Spring rates are much higher than any aftermarket replacement spring, and they do control dive and squat VERY well, yet the ride is similar to a Koni/Tein setup. They are valved quite nicely for the springs, and might be closer to what you are used to in your SE-R as far as how they feel. Add swaybars, and you'd be good to go.

I'll let others fill in on the more expensive coilovers and such; we tend to run the more economical setups on our cars to try and figure out what works best for a relatively small amount of money. One day we'll get into some pricier stuff I'm sure, but honestly our cars work so well for everything from road trips to track days that no one is too eager to jump into something more aggressive. Like SouthFL noted, the car works reasonably well on track even with a stock suspension. Such things happen when you start with a sports car chassis from the ground up .

Daemos

DPE: Yes, that's the one thing the RX8 has which my old SER didn't, a real chassis. I'm hoping I'll be in an RX8 today, but used car shopping is hard, and I've never purchased a used car before. But I'm going to the owner cash in hand, so hopefully all will be well As well good info on the how mc phearsons and doublewishbones act on the coilovers differently, I knew double wishbones acted a lot differently, I just never knew how they affected on the coilovers

The reason my budget varies, is because I'm afraid of buying something like the Ksports again, looking af the features for 700USD they were a steal, after installing them, I was really regretting it =/

The KW variants have caught my eye very well as I found the GB page for them

Daemos

Yey I bought it

Although I might have to put a hold on suspension mods for now...winter is coming in a few months and winter tires > anything else.

mac11

iTrader: (1)

Depends on what you want to do for winter tires but mustange GT's come with 17" wheels and Pirelli pzero nero M&S all season tires and are cheap on ebay and the mustang forums.

Daemos

Hmm...well I'd rip off the tires...but good advice, I'm searching all the intenret for cheap 17" 5x114.3 rims with something like a +40-45 offset.

Razz1

I like KW's