Fender braces?
02-24-2010 | 01:03 PM
#1
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From: socallie
Fender braces?
Anyone know if there's a company that makes Fender Braces for our cars? I had nagisa brace on my other cars and they work so well. (http://www.more-japan.com/home.php?cat=281)
I want something like that for the rx8 >_<
I want something like that for the rx8 >_<
02-24-2010 | 02:27 PM
#2
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From: Socal
I've had the Boss Frog Arms on my Miata before and they did make a noticeable difference when braking.
That was one of the last braces I put on the car though. There are so many other areas that I think need improvement before this mod (if it even exists).
Personally, I think:
- Upgraded diff mount bushings (like Energy Suspension pieces) would benefit the car more. Provide a more stable drivetrain during hard driving and therefore miss less shifts and gain confidence behind the wheel. These did wonders on the Miata and from looking at the RX8 differential mount position, it can use a lot of work as well.
That was one of the last braces I put on the car though. There are so many other areas that I think need improvement before this mod (if it even exists).
Personally, I think:
- Upgraded diff mount bushings (like Energy Suspension pieces) would benefit the car more. Provide a more stable drivetrain during hard driving and therefore miss less shifts and gain confidence behind the wheel. These did wonders on the Miata and from looking at the RX8 differential mount position, it can use a lot of work as well.
02-26-2010 | 06:30 AM
#3
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From: Indianapolis, IN
I've had the Boss Frog Arms on my Miata before and they did make a noticeable difference when braking.
That was one of the last braces I put on the car though. There are so many other areas that I think need improvement before this mod (if it even exists).
Personally, I think:
- Upgraded diff mount bushings (like Energy Suspension pieces) would benefit the car more. Provide a more stable drivetrain during hard driving and therefore miss less shifts and gain confidence behind the wheel. These did wonders on the Miata and from looking at the RX8 differential mount position, it can use a lot of work as well.
That was one of the last braces I put on the car though. There are so many other areas that I think need improvement before this mod (if it even exists).
Personally, I think:
- Upgraded diff mount bushings (like Energy Suspension pieces) would benefit the car more. Provide a more stable drivetrain during hard driving and therefore miss less shifts and gain confidence behind the wheel. These did wonders on the Miata and from looking at the RX8 differential mount position, it can use a lot of work as well.
As far as fender braces go I believe you are right----many other mods to improve handling and reduce lap time before the need for these braces. The car needs more grip and improved suspension before you have enough body roll and potential flex before subframe connectors come into play. Same your money (for now).
03-01-2010 | 12:27 PM
#6
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From: Socal
Excessive shift force and high rpm operation appears to be the premature trans failure culprit. We looked into diff bushings and ultimately did without. Switched to the 2009 trans and extended the trans life by a huge factor. We've yet to pull it after many hours of racing and higher race rpm use. I've noticed that even very, very gentle shifting with the 04-08 trans will still ultimately lead to 3/4 synchro failure.
As far as fender braces go I believe you are right----many other mods to improve handling and reduce lap time before the need for these braces. The car needs more grip and improved suspension before you have enough body roll and potential flex before subframe connectors come into play. Same your money (for now).
As far as fender braces go I believe you are right----many other mods to improve handling and reduce lap time before the need for these braces. The car needs more grip and improved suspension before you have enough body roll and potential flex before subframe connectors come into play. Same your money (for now).
All that stiffening didn't improve my times. I was getting passed by guys who had a much more simpler approach and actually knew what parts they were adding before they were added.
Save yourself the money. There are definitely other items to address on this car.....like that trans issue that Eric wasn't talking about. What's the point of having all that bracing when you third gear goes out and ends your season!
03-15-2010 | 01:43 AM
#9
I also say it because I use to be a poster boy for "cool" parts on my Miata. I had the full FM frame rails, butterfly brace, Boss Frog braces, and even the full Carbing brace setup.
All that stiffening didn't improve my times. I was getting passed by guys who had a much more simpler approach and actually knew what parts they were adding before they were added.
Save yourself the money. There are definitely other items to address on this car.....like that trans issue that Eric wasn't talking about. What's the point of having all that bracing when you third gear goes out and ends your season!
All that stiffening didn't improve my times. I was getting passed by guys who had a much more simpler approach and actually knew what parts they were adding before they were added.
Save yourself the money. There are definitely other items to address on this car.....like that trans issue that Eric wasn't talking about. What's the point of having all that bracing when you third gear goes out and ends your season!
Not to mention weighing your car down with all that crap
I'm not even running any front strut tower brace at the moment ...
.
03-15-2010 | 11:03 PM
#11
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Found this quote from the rx7 forum.
Fender braces (also called "K" braces) are very popular w/ 240s and 300zx's. They're ideal for road racing, as they stiffen up the front end significantly. OPTION did a review on the FD with just the fender brace, and found it to drastically help stiffen the front end, increasing the brakes' effectivness and suspension ride. Much like a strut tower bar works on side to side forces, the fender brace works on up and down forces.
Also, as I'm sure you're aware, several large names in Japanese racing produce and run these parts. For example, FEED and Nagisa-Auto, which btw holds the title for the fastest tuned car in Japan - their Nagisa-Auto 800hp Skyline R34. So it's probably fair to assume there may be just a wee bit of engineering behind this product
Moreover, Fritz Flynn - who also happens to be a roadcourse instructor at several events and tracks, including at VIR - had this to say about the fender braces:
"These will help to reduce body flex allowing for more predictable and faster turn in response from your car. Similar to the way a strut bar decreases the time from turning the wheel to actual turn in. IOW turn in will happen faster with quicker steering feedback. You can feel it in the corners thats for sure."
In short, there's a lot more evidence that it *does* work than that it doesn't. I already have my FEED braces, and they're waiting to be installed on my FD...
~Ramy
FDNewbie Imports
Also, as I'm sure you're aware, several large names in Japanese racing produce and run these parts. For example, FEED and Nagisa-Auto, which btw holds the title for the fastest tuned car in Japan - their Nagisa-Auto 800hp Skyline R34. So it's probably fair to assume there may be just a wee bit of engineering behind this product
Moreover, Fritz Flynn - who also happens to be a roadcourse instructor at several events and tracks, including at VIR - had this to say about the fender braces:
"These will help to reduce body flex allowing for more predictable and faster turn in response from your car. Similar to the way a strut bar decreases the time from turning the wheel to actual turn in. IOW turn in will happen faster with quicker steering feedback. You can feel it in the corners thats for sure."
In short, there's a lot more evidence that it *does* work than that it doesn't. I already have my FEED braces, and they're waiting to be installed on my FD...
~Ramy
FDNewbie Imports
03-16-2010 | 07:29 AM
#13
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From: Indianapolis, IN
This is a neat little gizmo however to validate that it actually does something positive and to what magnitude would be near impossible. To my knowledge there is no "chassis flex sensor" that can confirm benefits. The front end of the RX-8 (which I have had apart a dozen times down to the bare metal) is not hugely weak in the area this device is located. Furthermore the structure that this attaches to is not rock solid. This is sort of like building a house using a steel structure but located on the sand.
I could be wrong however we've never found/seen/discovered that this is a hugely weak area on the car (and I have no problem being wrong on this subject AT ALL).
If it were we I would address the the area of the car farther forward just above the front subframe first. The little cross brace above the steering rack is pretty wimpy. We've replaced it with a rod between the two what you may call frame rails. We also use a more structural strut tower brace to connect the two shock towers. Does this help? Dunno. Does it CONNECT the system together---yes.
These guys have the right idea however it's addressing an area of the car that I don't think is a weak link at all. Perhaps on other cars but not this one (IMO).
A more interesting contracption would be a combo upper strut tower brace that ties into a beefed up firewall.
I could be wrong however we've never found/seen/discovered that this is a hugely weak area on the car (and I have no problem being wrong on this subject AT ALL).
If it were we I would address the the area of the car farther forward just above the front subframe first. The little cross brace above the steering rack is pretty wimpy. We've replaced it with a rod between the two what you may call frame rails. We also use a more structural strut tower brace to connect the two shock towers. Does this help? Dunno. Does it CONNECT the system together---yes.
These guys have the right idea however it's addressing an area of the car that I don't think is a weak link at all. Perhaps on other cars but not this one (IMO).
A more interesting contracption would be a combo upper strut tower brace that ties into a beefed up firewall.
03-16-2010 | 09:05 AM
#14
This is a neat little gizmo however to validate that it actually does something positive and to what magnitude would be near impossible. To my knowledge there is no "chassis flex sensor" that can confirm benefits. The front end of the RX-8 (which I have had apart a dozen times down to the bare metal) is not hugely weak in the area this device is located. Furthermore the structure that this attaches to is not rock solid. This is sort of like building a house using a steel structure but located on the sand.
I could be wrong however we've never found/seen/discovered that this is a hugely weak area on the car (and I have no problem being wrong on this subject AT ALL).
If it were we I would address the the area of the car farther forward just above the front subframe first. The little cross brace above the steering rack is pretty wimpy. We've replaced it with a rod between the two what you may call frame rails. We also use a more structural strut tower brace to connect the two shock towers. Does this help? Dunno. Does it CONNECT the system together---yes.
These guys have the right idea however it's addressing an area of the car that I don't think is a weak link at all. Perhaps on other cars but not this one (IMO).
A more interesting contracption would be a combo upper strut tower brace that ties into a beefed up firewall.
I could be wrong however we've never found/seen/discovered that this is a hugely weak area on the car (and I have no problem being wrong on this subject AT ALL).
If it were we I would address the the area of the car farther forward just above the front subframe first. The little cross brace above the steering rack is pretty wimpy. We've replaced it with a rod between the two what you may call frame rails. We also use a more structural strut tower brace to connect the two shock towers. Does this help? Dunno. Does it CONNECT the system together---yes.
These guys have the right idea however it's addressing an area of the car that I don't think is a weak link at all. Perhaps on other cars but not this one (IMO).
A more interesting contracption would be a combo upper strut tower brace that ties into a beefed up firewall.
I am interested in the fender brace as well, extremely popular with the Nissan and Subaru crowds for their improvements I think some could benefit from it. Time will tell and customer feedback will be the determining factor.
I look forward to getting a set of fender braces on my car just to see the difference. It may not be as huge as a sway bar, but an improvement is an improvement. How much is to be determined, and with items like this we rely solely on our butt dyno to tell us how well it works.
We all know how that goes....
03-17-2010 | 08:39 PM
#15
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This is a neat little gizmo however to validate that it actually does something positive and to what magnitude would be near impossible. To my knowledge there is no "chassis flex sensor" that can confirm benefits. The front end of the RX-8 (which I have had apart a dozen times down to the bare metal) is not hugely weak in the area this device is located. Furthermore the structure that this attaches to is not rock solid. This is sort of like building a house using a steel structure but located on the sand.
I could be wrong however we've never found/seen/discovered that this is a hugely weak area on the car (and I have no problem being wrong on this subject AT ALL).
If it were we I would address the the area of the car farther forward just above the front subframe first. The little cross brace above the steering rack is pretty wimpy. We've replaced it with a rod between the two what you may call frame rails. We also use a more structural strut tower brace to connect the two shock towers. Does this help? Dunno. Does it CONNECT the system together---yes.
These guys have the right idea however it's addressing an area of the car that I don't think is a weak link at all. Perhaps on other cars but not this one (IMO).
A more interesting contracption would be a combo upper strut tower brace that ties into a beefed up firewall.
I could be wrong however we've never found/seen/discovered that this is a hugely weak area on the car (and I have no problem being wrong on this subject AT ALL).
If it were we I would address the the area of the car farther forward just above the front subframe first. The little cross brace above the steering rack is pretty wimpy. We've replaced it with a rod between the two what you may call frame rails. We also use a more structural strut tower brace to connect the two shock towers. Does this help? Dunno. Does it CONNECT the system together---yes.
These guys have the right idea however it's addressing an area of the car that I don't think is a weak link at all. Perhaps on other cars but not this one (IMO).
A more interesting contracption would be a combo upper strut tower brace that ties into a beefed up firewall.
Last edited by fc3snyc; 03-17-2010 at 08:46 PM.
03-21-2010 | 01:30 AM
#19
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The tires, racing pads, stainless steel brake lines, the exhaust system, the arms, the bars, the seats, the turbo, .. all these supporting mods are the most expensive part of racing.
03-21-2010 | 01:31 AM
#20
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