Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Hey everyone,

Got a question regarding the new sway bars I've installed on my car. Just so you know, the only other suspension modification I've done is Tein S tech springs, everything else was stock until the sways. So, last night me and Astral put on a set of White Line sway bars onto my car and set them at the stiffest setting. The front is 60% stiffer and the rear is 80% stiffer on that setting. Now, we took it out for a spin, and immediately I was terrified and thought I just lost control of the car as I took a corner.

It felt like all responsiveness and feeling from the car disappeared..I can't feel the tires.. I can't feel anything, except that a lot of the body roll is gone...go figure, right? But it's just..completely floaty. I thought it was me a first, brushed it off, took a few more turns..felt great sometimes. But if I really pushed it and turned, you loose all feeling completely, like the suspension is made of air or something.

I wanted to know what you all recommend I do? Does that mean the sway was installed wrong (I'm about 90% sure we did them right because we mimic'd the setup on Astral's car)? Should I make the rear softer (apparently the soft setting makes the rear 60%)? I'm really confused and in all honesty, a bit scared. :/ It's really like.... You know when yo do a donut or something in the parking lot, and feel the car just slip and let go? Feels like that..only..you're driving fine. So I can't even feel the limits. There's just no way I can autocross like this. Thanks in advanced guys.

Greenblurr93

iTrader: (1)

After talking with you via AIM, you made the comment that the front felt great and planted and the turn-in was good. Only the back gave you that 'floating' feeling... I suggest lowering the back setting and leaving the front for now to see if the car neutralizes.

Now, im only SPECULATING so take from it what you will.... but it could also be the shocks youre using... i believe Astrals koni's are a low pressure gas shock where as the stockers are a high pressure gas shock. Maybe then the stiffest setting was just too much and gave you that floating feeling??

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Maybe. He has Koni Yellow's actually.

And wasn't nessicarily the back..it was all around that I couldn't feel the car at all. The turn it felt good, but as I progressed and went hard into it..that's when everything disappeared. No limit is felt, nothing..Just..goes.

2tone

iTrader: (3)

i'm not expert, but i was under the impression that you just have to be reeeeeally careful, and get re-used to the car, re-learn the breaking point -- the sways keep the car stiffer and flatter in the turn ---- your car is so stiff, that it can take the corners faster and it doesn't feel like it's reaching the limit, but all cars, no matter what susp mods and sways, have a limit where the tires will break loose. b/c the sways help keep the car so flat during the turn, you don't FEEL the body roll and lean, so you don't FEEL when it's about to break loose, whereas before you did. you're right, it's a little scary, but i think what you're experiencing is exactly what you SHOULD experience w/ super stiff sways.

i have tein s, stock shocks, and rb sways. i felt a similar feeling but have kinda gotten used to it. just be careful, and leave dsc on!!! again, i don't KNOW, just going by what i've read and felt. maybe try dialing down the stiffness of the sways and see how that feels relative to what you have now...

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, after work we were going to try and soften the rear so that the front and rear are an even stiffness. Like I said at first, I assumed it was just me..But today at work, I let my good friend take the car out for a spin.

Now, he's a track driver and has been doing autocross for years. Used to drive a crazy Supra, now drives a 1998 M3, with insane suspension mods. When I drive his "stiff as hell" car.. I don't get that floating feeling at all. Same sweeping turn.. no floating feeling. Yet, when I drive my car and take that sweeping turn.. thats where it feels like the suspension is made of air. Point is, he agree'd with me that it's insanely "floaty" and that there is little to no response from the car at all. No feed back. He says he wouldn't even dare to track this, let alone autocross.

You really only feel the floatyness on a sweeping turn. So if he's used to his stiff car, and now my car is stiff, don't you think he would be used to that feeling, if he WAS supposed to feel that feeling?

2tone

iTrader: (3)

good point, the more 1st person accounts of driving it the better. maybe the stiffness of the s-techs and the stiffness of the whiteline sways are just too much for the stock shocks?? maybe they need an upgrade to get that balance back....? kinda like a weakest link argument, doesn't matter how good or stiff 2 of 3 or 4 components are, if you have something weaker, or something that doesn't match up w/ your new set-up, it could cause more harm than good.....?

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

It's funny, because that's EXACTLY what my friend at work said. He believes it may be the S Techs causing this. So I'm not 100% on what I'll be doing now. :/ Like I said, going to try the softer settings and everything and see what happens. :x

2tone

iTrader: (3)

cool. hopefully they're easy to adjust so you can try a few different things. i love my set up (s-techs w/ rb sways), but i don't autocross or anything, so i've never tried or had to push it far enough to maybe notice a problem.

i bet it just might be a bad mesh of products. like rb makes their own springs, which are designed w/ their own sways in mind, etc., so combining whiteline, tein, and stock might just not be a good combo. let us know how it goes w/ some different settings. be careful out there.

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Thanks and will do. Still open to other ideas/comments from other people too. *koff* Team RX8 *koff koff*

2tone

iTrader: (3)

definitely. you can't be the only one w/ s-techs and whitelines, so hopefully someone will be able to chime in and help see what's going on...

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Fixed the problem. I don't know why this would matter (maybe someone can explain this?) or anything, but we setup the rears to be softer. I looked up the whiteline thread, apparently the fronts are 54% or 64% and the rears are either 79% or 91%. I had them both to the stiffest setting and thats where I got the super flying ability. Well, my buddy recommended setting the rears softer to match the front, in which I did..and MAN what a change! it still feels stiff as hell with next to no body roll...But the floaty feeling is gone. Now THIS is performance. I'm just curious why setting the rear to such a higher stiffness would cause this. Anyways..That was the fix it seems.

2tone

iTrader: (3)

^^ awesome!!!!!

philsbluerx8

stock sways are perfectly balanced for stock rx8 and as mentioned above, u have been used to the stock feelings. However, now u have 60% stiffer front and 80/5 stiffer rear meaning that ur stock balance is changed and now ur car should produce more oversteer because rear has 20% of stiffness increased than ur front. if ur sways are adjustable, u can try to decrease the stiffness of the rear. Or u just have to relearn the way u drive it.

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Makes sense. Keep in mind, my friend Sergey (that M3 track driver) is comparing my car to his...well his beast. He has reinforced strut bars, sway bars, and fully adjustable coilovers, with underbody bracers as well. So his car just handles everything like a champ. When I drive it now, it feels completely fine to me, (now that I softened the rear to 79) but Sergey mentioned he feels the floating feeling still though, only when going over a bump while turning. Perhaps the limit of the stock shocks?

philsbluerx8

the limit of stock tires. not to mention, they are really bad. Get a good set of tires will improve the handling a lot. I wouldnt consider hard corning on the stock tires as a good idea. obviously ur car cant be handled as good as that M3 which has complete suspension tuned. if u have the same suspension mods with the ur buddy's M3, urs will handle better than his.
anyways, a set of tires is always a good start of increasing handling.

philsbluerx8

keep in mind, even if u took off the rear sway bar completely, u will still spin ur car sometime when going on a bump with stock tires.

Greenblurr93

iTrader: (1)

I forget exactly what Marc (Zelse) has, but i think they are the yoko s-drive in 245/40/18

SouthFL

Stock tires would be nowhere near the limiting factor of the situation described by the OP. I tracked the car on OEM tires for about 10 months. They are capable (not the stickiest street tire available, but capable nonetheless) UHP tires. I do agree that stickier compound, stiffer sidewall tires do go a long way to improve grip.

Rear sway bar at full stiff on a RWD, well balanced car is usually not a good idea. Add on to that the fact that the stock (underdamped) damper is being challenged already by the S-Tech springs- additional load of the sway bar (when car is loaded laterally) set at full stiff and there you have it. Overloaded OEM damper begging to be relieved of some load was resolved by stepping a notch down on the sway bar setting, restoring some integrity back in to the overall setup.

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

Sounds good to me SouthFL. Thanks for that. And yeah.. I'm running 245/40 Yokohama S drive. If you check my blog it's there :P But SouthFL...Do you think if I soften the front sway bar, it will help the "disconnect of feeling" on a bump situation?

SouthFL

Whiteline set has 3 notches up front, 2 in rear I believe?

Remember, at full soft, the WL bar is an increase in stiffness over stock (79% increase at the rear).
Try a medium setting up front, full soft rear.

SouthFL

Increase damper. Time to buy set of Koni or D-Spec.

Zelse

iTrader: (12)

The front has only 2 settings. Soft and stiff. Soft is 54% and stiff is 64% in the front. And increase damper? I was just thinking about saving up for coilovers instead of just getting dampers. Reason I say that is because the S tech drop is awesome..but with a low gas pressure damper, the car is going to be scraping everything around me. So might as well get something adjustable.