mdw1000

Says the total adjustment range is about 5 half turns. So you are right in the middle, it sounds like. Makes sense - give you the ability to go equally as firm or soft in the front when compared to the back....

That's what she said....

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

^^^ now you're getting it my young Padawan.

mdw1000

But how am I supposed to see anything with the blast shield down?

What setting do you use on the front shocks?

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

for daily driving I'm at about .75 full turn from soft. I've had it as high as 1.5, pretty stiff. Buddy of mine had them on his 8 and would go FULL stiff for auto cross days.

speeddemon32

howdy!
I'm that buddy.
Yup. I had the Konis on my car. I did track the crap out of it. (and on full stiff.... they are STIFF... on full soft they are still stiffer then a factory shock.)

In my personal oppinion there is nothing better for the money then the Koni Yellows. they are great daily driver shocks and even better track shocks.

when i was in the market for shocks I was looking to buy cheap coilovers. cheap meaning in teh $1500 range. EVERYONE I talked to at the track said dont even bother waisting your money with Tein or any other "cheap" coil over out tere. Konis are the way to go. simple as that. (Unless your looking for a $3000 set of coil overs)

I am yet another testamonial to the Koni Yellow shocks on an RX-8.

and for the record, Koni also has te best bang for the buck on miata shocks. again I was looking to by a RACE setup for the miata. Teins are nothing but laughed at. along with many other sub $2000 coild overs. but the Koni yellow shocks are top notch unless you want to run the $3000 set of coil overs.

hope that helps.

EricMeyer

Hello guys,

I received a PM to review and give some feedback on this thread. Suspension is a tough subject for several reasons. My hopes are that this post will help some of your with your suspension choice challenges.

-What works on one car may not work exactly the same on another car (we see this with our two race cars all the time)
-Differing driver styles can cloud the story. What one driver thinks is great another driver could say is terrible. The less experience you have as a driver the lesser quality the feedback generally is. Most often a driver with little seat time INCORRECTLY evaluates a car's handling characteristics. Perhaps you are listening to them on this forum and believing they know what they're talking about. Don't be afraid to ask them questions. I can tell you that there are a few guys on this forum that don't know jack. Every forum has them.
-The track surface condition of your local course that you may base the majority of your cars feedback on may be 180 degrees different than a person who evaluates a car on a different surface. Track surfaces vary guys. Some can be slippery while others can have good grip.
-Everyone's tire condition can be different
-and on and on and on

Here is what I would like everyone to understand:

1. If you are looking to purchase an end-all suspension solution to your current driving skill set and type of driving you do (AutoX, DE, Advanced HPDE...) you are likely to learn much more a year from now than you currently know. This means you could make a buying decision today (with little to no actual suspension experience) that if you delayed until a year from now you could make these same decisions with much better information and experience under your belt. Seriously. Waiting is a good thing when thinking about suspension upgrades. Waiting can also equate to making small purchases, trying them several times, assessing and then trying something else. One of the big errors a new driver can make is to buy a complete suspension.

2. There is no ideal suspension setting. Some things work better than others. If you are asking what (and this isn't a slam on anyone on this thread or forum) if you are asking what shock settings someone uses then you probably don't have a driving skill set good enough to tell the difference between setting "A", "B" or "C". Congrats---you are normal. You guys need to know that when we go racing its common to adjust bars, increase spring rates, decrease spring rates, make shock adjustments etc. to get a race car to perform at or near it's peak. You see this all the time in NASCAR, F1 and Grand-Am (you have to look a little more closely for this in Grand-Am). These guys are doing this for a reason. There is no ideal suspension setting. Now here is the good news---you can get your car to handle much better than stock if you are currently maximizing it's stock abilities. But it's going to take some effort gang.

3. In my Driver Coaching and Instruction I often come across the guy who has spent 5X on his car and 0X on his skill set. Congrats---you are normal. Too many people try to buy a fast car and faster parts WHEN IT IS THE DRIVER THAT MAKES THE CAR GO FAST. Guys, you can not understand the value of learning to drive a slower car. Suspension mods typically "mask" the real problem---the driver's skill set. Apologies to those of you that can hoof your car and push it to it's limits (you are in the minority).

4. Many of you need to hear this: Be prepared to adjust your suspension at the track and try stuff. Sadly many of you won't attempt this. You have your weak reasons (excuses). Fine. Whatever. You are the ones that are missing the boat. THE BEST thing you can do is try stuff. Try anything. Jack your tire pressures up. Crank them down. Disconnect your rear sway bar. Crank your 52 million setting adjustable shocks and try to feel what the car does differently. This is how you learn. One of the best experineces you can do is to DISCONNECT both your sway bars and drive a track in the rain. Keep in mind that you only need to dissconnect one side on the front and one in the rear. Zip tie the end link to the bar to keep it from flopping around. Driving the RX8 in the rain is a driving skill set multiplier. A weekend in the rain equates to 4 weekends in the dry. It's the best.

5. Too many people (and I'm hearing this on this thread and that's why I'm jumping in to comment) buy a product, install it, stick with one setting and think it's faster and/or the "preferred" setting and never touch it again. Guess what? The boat left and you're not on it. The real opportunity in higher performing aftermarket suspension is it's adjustability. Knowing how to adjust it comes from trying things. Those people that are fast are typically those who invested in trying things. Its the old "I learned 20 ways the shocks/bars/springs DIDN'T work. This is the ticket kids. Try stuff. Its fun and it will propel your learning curve. You'll be the one that can reply to these threads using your experience and not "so and so said this...." Try stuff.

Personal note: There are many club racers I know that can't/won't/don't make changes to their cars. I use to troubleshoot these cars and realize the issue and these same people were still too reserved??? to make changes. If you're one of these people who is tentative in nature, keep in mind that driving and suspension is not a good place for you to play. Mechanical Engineering types do VERY WELL as drivers and suspension practitioners. Take note.

To avoid making this an Eric Meyer famous 83 paragraph post, here is a quick do and don't list:

DO'S

-DO Try little things first. Tire pressure adjustments. Removing sway bars. Get a good alignment. These things are cheap and can tell you a ton. Tire pressures are free.
-DO Ask more questions of people on the forums. Just because somebody owns a set of XYZ 58 way adjustable shocks and says they are da-bomb doesn't mean they work---at all. Let the buyer beware. Ask them to provide data---this is the beauty of these forums.
-DO believe that you can spend a little bit of your hard earned money and get good suspension results
-DO plan on getting more seat time. Seat time cures all. An apprentice carpenter can not become great by buying the best set of tools and then tackling his first project---right? The smart carpenter tries things with his limited tools and figures it out. There is a lesson here guys. Let me tell you a story: There was this guy that kept telling me he would go to the track when he got his car all tricked out and fixed up. He never made it to the track. His name is Dick. Don't be a dick. The End.
-DO follow race car logic. Capture data. Monitor your tire pressures. Buy (or split the cost with a few buddies) a tire pyrometer to capture tire temps. You will learn a ton. A TON.
-DO understand that suspension dynamics are not unique to RX8's. The logic of adjusting a Miata or Mustang suspension is similar to our RX8s. Bars, springs and tire pressures work together on one car just like another. If you want to compare suspension theories, find a light weight low powered car with an I.R.S. suspension and learn.
-DO read any of Ross Bentley's books or the famous Skip Barber bible (forward by Carl Lopez and Danny Sullivan). This is probably the best book you can buy. Read it twice.
-DO be open to changing your driving style. This is free and can tell you a ton of things about your current car's suspension (and it's FREE).
-DO consider upgrading your sway bars first. Don't be shy. Inexpensive. Easy to install and the RX8 likes stiffer bars (HINT HINT).
-DO learn how to swap our your brake pads at the track and try the new Hawk DTC compounds. They last long, are easy on the rotors and stop on a dime. Try 60's front and 10's rear.

DON'TS

-DON'T buy R compound tires. If you do I will whoop your azz. R compound tires mask driver issues. They will hurt you more than help you unless you have tons of track time. Those in the know already are aware of this.
-DON'T throw away instruction. Although this is only my second year of Pro Racing in Koni, I consistantly seek out feedback from driver's that are faster than I. Often our lap times on a 1 minute 40 second lap time (100 seconds total) is about 1 second apart and/or 1%. 1%! This is generally found on a 8 turn course as .15 seconds on one turn, .2 at another etc., etc. When you go fast you look for small tenths here and there. You need instruction and help to find these hidden tenths. Seek out Instruction. This could be a faster driver who drives your car, a fellow driver of similar car configuration that you lead/follow, a professional driver that you ask "can you evaluate my RX8 and/or will you drive it and let me sit next to you and observe?". This happens all the time. What actually happens with several pro teams is a comparision of data from two (or more) drivers of the same car. You can do this with your car too. Ask someone to drive it who is faster than you. Be open to learning.
-DON'T get 88 way adjustable shocks. They are too advanced and hard to tune for the novice let alone the beginner. I believe there are a few posts on this thread that support this theory. Read more threads and you'll see that some people that bought highly adjustable shocks took them off because they couldn't get them to work properly. Adjustable shocks are not as simple as installing them and going faster.
-DON'T think you can show up a the track with a camping chair and some ArmorAll and think you can learn how to get the most out of your car. Bring tools. Buy a jack and jackstands (think safety first always) and learn what the bottom on your car looks like. If this is beneath your skill set then hire someone to do it or bring a buddy that knows how and buy him a steak dinner. Learning how to wrench on your car ONLY ESCALATES your learning curve.
-DON'T purchase expensive aftermarket suspension, set it and forget it. If you're not willing to make changes then buy something that has no adjustments, save your money and go do more Autox or HPDE's. If your a type of person who is slow to make changes in your life (which is fine, cool and dandy) then recognize your learning curve is going to take a LOT longer than the person who tries stuff. If you want a car with a proven suspension that goes fast and you don't have to mess with it, buy a corvette. No kidding. The new vette is incredible, proven and fast. The Z06 is a pleasure to drive and is absolutely capable of more than you can throw at it. Put gas and brake pads on it and go to town. My point is that our RX8 has to be messed with a bit to get it to work for you. It can be very rewarding if you enjoy these kind of projects. Many others cars fall into this category. The vette not as much.
-DON'T buy cool 19" wheels that are wider in the back and thin in the front. You will spend more in tires than you could possibly imagine. One of the best things you can do is to FIRST look for a wheel size that has several available tire choices. This will save you money. Some of you already know what I'm talking about because you're paying a crap load for your tires. I go through about $2K per weekend in tires per car. This is normal for teams like ours. I think I own about 11 sets of wheels and most of them are 17 x 9 with a 45 offset. We can easily swap them out and not adversely effect the cars handling. For a stock-type RX8 when your front left starts wearing on the outside if you have all 4 of the same tires than you could EASILY swap this tire with the right rear (which typically has less wear). This gives you better tire wear for ALL your tires, helps you go faster, safer, saves your money. Nobody tells you this stuff. Everybody (I did it) wants to buy really cool wheels. Cool looking wheels don't mean jack shat if your tires are wore out.

The purpose of this post was to give those of you considering suspension upgrades a concept of how to approach the idea choosing and using aftermarket suspension. I hoped I have given each of you one trinket of value.

Happy rotoring

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

Great Post Eric,,, thanks for your time in putting it up...

shazy

Epic post Eric! Made me learn some stuff and lowered my overconfidence (my cockyness... yes I said it)

You are right, people with like 3000$ suspensions think they are the **** and try to prove to everyone that their car is faster. While this may be true, that person with the 3k suspension does not know how to drive and then get's owned by a completely stock car with an experienced guy behind the wheel. i have never went to a track, in fact any type of track... except for go-karting.

I plan to go to meets and track days, but where I live, it sucks, there isn't any kind of stuff around here atleast none of the stuff that I know of.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Unless you are getting a set of coilovers, get the Tokicos over the Konis. I run the D-Specs, and I run them fairly soft in the winter (for better grip in slippery conditions), a bit firmer on the street in the remaining three seasons, and then at full stiff for autocross work. I've autocrossed a Koni equipped RX-8, also at full stiff, and was hard pressed to tell the difference while autocrossing. However, I get to soften my car up for the ride home, but the Koni driver does not.

Honestly, I think the D-Specs are the better choice for 95% of the people on this board - or should I say, at least for anybody who has an inclination for adjusting the dampers depending on conditions. For the "set it and forget it" crowd (which is cool, nothing wrong with that) then either choice is good.

mdw1000

Eric,

That's exactly why I asked you to post here - thanks!

Alrib

Shazy,

You have an awesome track at Mt. Tremblant!!!
Check out: http://bmwquebec.ca/

If you've never been on a track the BMW HPDE schools are the best bang for the buck. $400 or so for a weekend with an instructor sitting beside you in your car the whole time so he/she won't let you do something stupid like put your car into a wall. RX-8 stock brakes are great so I would only change the brake fluid to DOT 4, buy a cheap motorcycle helmet (M2000 or better), get the car teched by a mechanic and your all set!

Chibana

I think this may be some very good, and relevant, advice for me. I have the Racing Beat springs and KONI Sport dampers on my Mazda3. I was simply looking for a very high quality damper and spring combination that I would set and forget. With my RX-8, that I'm hoping to take to the track occasionally, I would like something that is adjustable to play with, and having the adjustment cable on the Tokicos would be very handy.

How do the Tokicos compare from a quality standpoint? I'll do some research on my own, but I'm curious to know from others here how they compare to KONI.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

You'll get wildly different answers on this one. Some will tell you the are huge differences, with the Konis being way better (usually without specifying why). My experiences are quite different, and I will relate them here.

I have had the D-Specs on my car for three years now. I was one of the early adopters, and you can find my threads on this forum (including some early frustrations).

Since then, I have run three full autocross seasons, and the D-Specs have served me faithfully, including a cross-country drive, from the west coast to Topeka, Kansas, for the Solo II National Championships. This trip is worth noting since I had the car completely loaded down with race wheels, a full-size jack, tools, jackstands, and everything else I would need fot the week. These kinds of trips can be hard on the shocks, but the D-Specs handled it fine.

So, I think they are a very well made damper at their price point, that have a wide range of adjustment (full stiff is comparable to Koni Yellows, but full soft is comparable to OEM).

In terms of performance, as I did nationals in '06 in my car, and in '07 in a Koni car (which I had driven before locally several times) and, at my skill level, I can detect no obvious advantage to either shock. I actually placed better in my car in '06, but I think that had more to do with the competitive field than the car change.

That's not to say a national champion couldn't tell a difference, but I couldn't, and I'm not exactly slow. I'll just say this - if there is a performance difference between the two shocks, it is very small, and would take a carefully constructed test to asses. This is why I say that for 95% of the people who want to adjust their dampers, D-Specs are a better choice on the RX-8. I'm not dissing the Konis, just being practical. If Konis could be easily adjusted (front and rear) I'd probably have them on my car. But they can't, so they aren't.

One thing I have not done is track days on the D-Specs, so I cannot speak to their fade resistance. But others on here can, I'm sure.