MS vs RB Handling Philosphy
#26
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Originally Posted by PUR NRG
I do both track days and autocross events and autocross will test your car's suspension limits more severely than the track. Track events are harder on the engine and brakes.
5. It will take a lot of time, money and knowledge for someone to experiment with all the different parts and determine which is better for a given application. Unfortunately we aren't there yet. People (including myself) who try only one upgrade path don't have a basis for comparison to say their route is the best.
My setup: JIC FLT-A2s with 560 lb/in springs in front (359% stiffer), 392 lb/in springs in rear (347% stiffer), lowered 3/4" and then corner weighted. RB front and rear sway bars with heim joints to eliminate preload. SSR 18x8.5" wheels with 245/40 Bridgestone S02 tires that will soon be replaced with Michelin PS2 265/35s.
PS So how does it all work for you on the track ? You should be killing the competition with those great mods... and they are what I would dream about doing myself... my experience w/another 8 that had just those coilovers and Stage2 mod ONLY was...eehhem...embarrasing at Watkins Glen! He just walked ..er..I mean ran...away from me:o .
Thanks.
Last edited by Spin9k; 12-22-2004 at 08:39 AM.
#27
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Originally Posted by PUR NRG
2. Upgrade order should be wheels, tires, springs/shocks, sway bar last. Ideally you want to tune the springs/shocks so you can run the least amount of sway bars possible. Way too many people recommend doing sway bars first because they're the cheapest and easy to install...
I went with sway bars first, because they are cheap, that's true. But because choosing a coilover is a more sophisticated mod, I believe it's the one that everybody must pay more attention (when trying to upgrade the suspension). That's why I want to spend more time collecting info, and then make the right choice (for me).
What I mean is, the order is basically up to what someone needs more... not that there is a 'correct order'.
Right now I'm considering the tein flex coilover. Does anyone know the %stiffness over stock?
p.s. PUR NRG I remember you stating that staggered setups are not good. Why are you going for 265/35 tires?
#28
I sort of like the big sway bar soft spring setup for the street where there are lots of rough roads and keeping a decent contact patch with a stiff suspension can be difficult.
#29
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Originally Posted by Spin9k
That doesn't sound right - repeated and continuous track time is just plain more demanding it would seem
acceleration improvements are fairly easy to measure
Say how much do your SSRs and S02s weigh together?
So how does it all work for you on the track ?
Originally Posted by RotorManiac
You have a point there, but I don't fully agree with you. There are lighter wheels out there, but since the stock ones are pretty good, this mod is not a must. It's also a very expensive one...
I remember you stating that staggered setups are not good. Why are you going for 265/35 tires?
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Last edited by PUR NRG; 05-01-2011 at 05:02 AM.
#30
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I know the difference with putting wider tires on these cars but there is a point at which you start hindering performance. I can see changing tires with possibly a slightly wider width but not until you start adding more power. The first thing that you should change are the materials on the car and then if you start to overwelm those upgraded materials replace them with the better parts. Besides, this is for another thread about tires and rims, we are supposed to be talking about the MS vs. the RB suspensions. I don't think you can go wrong with either one. I have my own setup and I love it. Perfect for me!
#31
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Originally Posted by Jaguar
I know the difference with putting wider tires on these cars but there is a point at which you start hindering performance. I can see changing tires with possibly a slightly wider width but not until you start adding more power.
Originally Posted by Jaguar
Besides, this is for another thread about tires and rims, we are supposed to be talking about the MS vs. the RB suspensions.
Botton line, 1/2 the job of the suspension is managing the unsprung weight, so the suspension needs to be tuned to that weight (the other 1/2 of the suspension's job is to manage the sprung weight, obviously). Strength of shock rebound, compression, spring and sway strength is exactly what this is about.
Originally Posted by jaguar
I don't think you can go wrong with either one. I have my own setup and I love it. Perfect for me!
Maybe in the end it actually is just pick one or the other, or something else entirely, but as originally stated in the beginning, that is why this fun discussion.
Last edited by Spin9k; 12-23-2004 at 09:50 PM.
#32
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Originally Posted by PUR NRG
Have you been on a track and participated in an autocross?
Originally Posted by PUR NRG
.....I never said I was getting a staggered setup. You can fit 265/35 tires on 18x8.5" rims on all four corners.
Thanks.
Last edited by Spin9k; 12-22-2004 at 02:50 PM.
#33
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Spin9k, which do you consider more challenging for a car's suspension: a long sweeper followed by a short straight or a quick series of slaloms? This is a simplification of track vs. autocross of course, but it's the difference between static and dynamic handling. That's why I consider autocross more challenging to a car's suspension.
Both my BMW and my wife's RX-8 have 18x8.5 wheels. Oddly enough I can't fit 265/35 tires even in the rear of the BMW, whereas typryor can put 275s in front of the RX-8 w/o rubbing. So I figure I should be okay putting 265/35 tires all-around on the RX-8.
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Both my BMW and my wife's RX-8 have 18x8.5 wheels. Oddly enough I can't fit 265/35 tires even in the rear of the BMW, whereas typryor can put 275s in front of the RX-8 w/o rubbing. So I figure I should be okay putting 265/35 tires all-around on the RX-8.
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Last edited by PUR NRG; 05-01-2011 at 05:02 AM.
#34
Momentum Keeps Me Going
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Originally Posted by PUR NRG
Spin9k, which do you consider more challenging for a car's suspension: a long sweeper followed by a short straight or a quick series of slaloms? This is a simplification of track vs. autocross of course, but it's the difference between static and dynamic handling. That's why I consider autocross more challenging to a car's suspension.
Also, please keep in mind that certainly not all tracks offer as much challange too, so we are likely, in our minds eye, seeing different tracks. I'm thinking of (no dreaming really of ) driving Watkins Glen, NY, which is a very severe track, lots of major elevation change, off camber 90 & 180 degree turns taken while the suspension is bottoming out at pretty high speeds. Fun, yes, hard on the car, yes, and likely more than the relative walk in the park a flat track might offer.
So, I don't disagree with you, really, just asking you see what I experienced too. Cheers.
Last edited by Spin9k; 12-22-2004 at 04:36 PM.
#35
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Originally Posted by PUR NRG
I never said I was getting a staggered setup. You can fit 265/35 tires on 18x8.5" rims on all four corners.
even the new M5 has 245, hope it will work out for you....
#36
I'm guessing sways and by extension the RB package do nothing for dive or squat, but how do they affect things like trail braking or post-apex acceleration?
If the springs in the RB package help with dive and squat.. can any owners chime in with their impressions of how much this was improved?
Also, how is the MS package on long distance trips?
If the springs in the RB package help with dive and squat.. can any owners chime in with their impressions of how much this was improved?
Also, how is the MS package on long distance trips?
#37
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Zaku,
I have the RB suspension package. The stiffer springs definitely help me going into the corners. The car does not feel like it's diving quite as much when I hit the corners hard, and same with exiting a fast corner I now don't feel the car squating back onto the rear suspension as much. The springs definitely help not only side to side, but front to back transitions as well.
I have the RB suspension package. The stiffer springs definitely help me going into the corners. The car does not feel like it's diving quite as much when I hit the corners hard, and same with exiting a fast corner I now don't feel the car squating back onto the rear suspension as much. The springs definitely help not only side to side, but front to back transitions as well.
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