Pirelli PZero Nero M+S
11-08-2004, 07:12 PM
#126
Originally Posted by Omicron
My speedo is off by +2MPH (higher than actual) at 60MPH with these tires. Before the tires it was off by +1MPH at 60MPH.
what tires did you have before? with the stock bidgestones my speedo reads 1.6 mph slow as per waas enabled gps.
i will switch to the neros when i finish killing the stones. looks like i am going to get 20k miles out of them. much more than i expected.
beers
11-08-2004, 08:55 PM
#127
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Originally Posted by swoope
omicron,
what tires did you have before? with the stock bidgestones my speedo reads 1.6 mph slow as per waas enabled gps.
i will switch to the neros when i finish killing the stones. looks like i am going to get 20k miles out of them. much more than i expected.
beers
what tires did you have before? with the stock bidgestones my speedo reads 1.6 mph slow as per waas enabled gps.
i will switch to the neros when i finish killing the stones. looks like i am going to get 20k miles out of them. much more than i expected.
beers
11-10-2004, 10:17 AM
#128
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Originally Posted by Omicron
By pure chance, I have indeed tracked my car with these tires on it. :D I am faaaaaaar from a professional race driver, but to my inexperienced hand they felt great. Granted, I wasn't pushing real hard, but I didn't once break the rear end loose or lose control of the car.
Once comment that was made though by a guy who does track the car a lot is that because of the rubber compound used in any all-season tires, the rubber is much more apt to "chunk" than with softer, more track-appropriate tires.
So, they'll probably be ok for occational track use if not pushed too hard, but if you really want to track your car do yourself a favor and buy a good set of track-specific "race" tires.
Hope this helps!
Once comment that was made though by a guy who does track the car a lot is that because of the rubber compound used in any all-season tires, the rubber is much more apt to "chunk" than with softer, more track-appropriate tires.
So, they'll probably be ok for occational track use if not pushed too hard, but if you really want to track your car do yourself a favor and buy a good set of track-specific "race" tires.
Hope this helps!
There's still loads of tread left on them...
11-23-2004, 05:23 PM
#129
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Pirelli PZero Nero M&S 235/45-17
Bought a set of PZero Nero M&S for the winter season. I wanted to give a little review since I have had them on for a couple of weeks now.
I had TireRack mount these tires on new wheels - Kazera KZ-T. Not the best-looking wheel but the price was cheap and they had two desirable qualities: light weight and 48mm offset. Wheels are advertised to weight 19.4 pounds. I wanted an offset that closely matched the 50mm stock measurement so that feel of the setup would closely match stock. I was hoping for an 8in wide wheel but they are not that typical, particularly in the 17in diameter that I chose to keep the price down. This wheel is 7.5in wide and I had some concern about a 235mm tire width, but the 7.5in was in the acceptable range according to TR's spec page. Another reason I chose a 17in wheel is that there are precious few High Performance All-Season tires in an appropriate 18in diameter size. You can get a pretty good selection at 245/40-18, but that was wider than I wanted to go for a winter tire option.
I chose the Pirelli after see good reviews both here and on the TR site. Went with the 235/45 instead of the 245/40 again because I didn't a significantly wider tire than stock for winter use.
First impressions: Wheel is barely smaller in diameter as compared to stock, maybe 2/10ths of an inch. Speedo should be around 1% off, no sweat. I had anticipated this as the Pirelli seems to have the largest diameter of all the 235/45-17 tires listed on the TR rack site. From appearance perspective, hard to tell that the 7.5in wheel width was the bottom of the acceptable range. I have a hard time believing that this tire could be mounted on a wheel 2 inches wider, 7.5 looks like the perfect wheel width. Tire/wheel combo is noticeably lighter than stock, maybe three to four pounds lighter; I didn't get a scale out.
Driving impressions: Immediately noticeable that the car feels more "squishy" now. Best way to describe the feel is to imagine the wheels twisting within the tire in a side-to-side manner, not rotationally. I believe that is a result of the half-inch greater sidewall on the 17s. I also suspect that the sidewall is not as firm as the stock tire. I have gone to a higher pressure (38 PSI) but I can still feel the "squish". Something to look forward to when I put the summer Bridgestone's back on. Grip seems very good and cold days are not a problem now. One advantage is that these tires are not as harsh over road irregularities; I guess "squishy" does have an upside. Wet grip is very good, but I have not had a chance to drive in snow yet. Stay tuned.
A quick note on the Bridgestones: Rotate! I had not rotated my tires yet, 8,000 miles in 11 months. The rears were noticeably more worn than the fronts. Also, having driven an RX-8 through last year's winter on the Potenzas (albeit with another car at my disposal for wintry days) I will reiterate what everyone already knows - Potenzas cannot be used in the slightest of snow. They are also quite slippery in the cold - until warmed up. When it got down to the teens, I could feel the tires were so stiff that they were out of round, but a couple of miles would warm them up and dry grip would be no problem. Problem was that I picked up my RX-8 December 1st last year and by the time I realize that some other tire was required for the winter, there was not much selection left. I limped through the winter on the summer tires but vowed not to do that again. I had to force my self to leave the RX-8 at home on wintry days, and that is tough to do with any new car, particularly one as wonderful as the RX-8.
I had TireRack mount these tires on new wheels - Kazera KZ-T. Not the best-looking wheel but the price was cheap and they had two desirable qualities: light weight and 48mm offset. Wheels are advertised to weight 19.4 pounds. I wanted an offset that closely matched the 50mm stock measurement so that feel of the setup would closely match stock. I was hoping for an 8in wide wheel but they are not that typical, particularly in the 17in diameter that I chose to keep the price down. This wheel is 7.5in wide and I had some concern about a 235mm tire width, but the 7.5in was in the acceptable range according to TR's spec page. Another reason I chose a 17in wheel is that there are precious few High Performance All-Season tires in an appropriate 18in diameter size. You can get a pretty good selection at 245/40-18, but that was wider than I wanted to go for a winter tire option.
I chose the Pirelli after see good reviews both here and on the TR site. Went with the 235/45 instead of the 245/40 again because I didn't a significantly wider tire than stock for winter use.
First impressions: Wheel is barely smaller in diameter as compared to stock, maybe 2/10ths of an inch. Speedo should be around 1% off, no sweat. I had anticipated this as the Pirelli seems to have the largest diameter of all the 235/45-17 tires listed on the TR rack site. From appearance perspective, hard to tell that the 7.5in wheel width was the bottom of the acceptable range. I have a hard time believing that this tire could be mounted on a wheel 2 inches wider, 7.5 looks like the perfect wheel width. Tire/wheel combo is noticeably lighter than stock, maybe three to four pounds lighter; I didn't get a scale out.
Driving impressions: Immediately noticeable that the car feels more "squishy" now. Best way to describe the feel is to imagine the wheels twisting within the tire in a side-to-side manner, not rotationally. I believe that is a result of the half-inch greater sidewall on the 17s. I also suspect that the sidewall is not as firm as the stock tire. I have gone to a higher pressure (38 PSI) but I can still feel the "squish". Something to look forward to when I put the summer Bridgestone's back on. Grip seems very good and cold days are not a problem now. One advantage is that these tires are not as harsh over road irregularities; I guess "squishy" does have an upside. Wet grip is very good, but I have not had a chance to drive in snow yet. Stay tuned.
A quick note on the Bridgestones: Rotate! I had not rotated my tires yet, 8,000 miles in 11 months. The rears were noticeably more worn than the fronts. Also, having driven an RX-8 through last year's winter on the Potenzas (albeit with another car at my disposal for wintry days) I will reiterate what everyone already knows - Potenzas cannot be used in the slightest of snow. They are also quite slippery in the cold - until warmed up. When it got down to the teens, I could feel the tires were so stiff that they were out of round, but a couple of miles would warm them up and dry grip would be no problem. Problem was that I picked up my RX-8 December 1st last year and by the time I realize that some other tire was required for the winter, there was not much selection left. I limped through the winter on the summer tires but vowed not to do that again. I had to force my self to leave the RX-8 at home on wintry days, and that is tough to do with any new car, particularly one as wonderful as the RX-8.
11-28-2004, 01:06 AM
#130
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I have these same tires in 245/40-18 on stock 18" wheels. FYI, the "squishy" feel goes away in a few hundred miles.. at least it did with mine. I suppose it may stay more noticible with the 17s.... Anyway, good choice!
11-28-2004, 06:52 AM
#131
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Originally Posted by Ti Driver
A quick note on the Bridgestones: Rotate! I had not rotated my tires yet, 8,000 miles in 11 months. The rears were noticeably more worn than the fronts. Also, having driven an RX-8 through last year's winter on the Potenzas (albeit with another car at my disposal for wintry days) I will reiterate what everyone already knows - Potenzas cannot be used in the slightest of snow. They are also quite slippery in the cold - until warmed up. When it got down to the teens, I could feel the tires were so stiff that they were out of round, but a couple of miles would warm them up and dry grip would be no problem.
12-08-2004, 07:15 AM
#132
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Omicron -
OK... so now a request for an update. What's the wear like after 9 months of use? How are they holding up and how many miles have you put on these tires since March 9th? I took my 8 in yesterday for routine service, (who can blame me? after almost two weeks of solid sub-freezing temps, snow that seemed unwilling to melt... I needed to get out on the first real decent day
And this time, I remembered both the airaplane and a the gas). When the tech had my baby on the lift, he checked the tires and found that they are getting down there as far as wear goes... 3/32 in the rear, 7/32 in the front.
Yikes! With just over 14k miles, no less. So, needless to say, I'm gonna be buying myself a little Christmas present. I'll just tell my better half; "Yes, dear. You did buy me a real good gift this year..." :D
OK... so now a request for an update. What's the wear like after 9 months of use? How are they holding up and how many miles have you put on these tires since March 9th? I took my 8 in yesterday for routine service, (who can blame me? after almost two weeks of solid sub-freezing temps, snow that seemed unwilling to melt... I needed to get out on the first real decent day
And this time, I remembered both the airaplane and a the gas). When the tech had my baby on the lift, he checked the tires and found that they are getting down there as far as wear goes... 3/32 in the rear, 7/32 in the front. Yikes! With just over 14k miles, no less. So, needless to say, I'm gonna be buying myself a little Christmas present. I'll just tell my better half; "Yes, dear. You did buy me a real good gift this year..." :D
Last edited by doccable; 12-08-2004 at 07:19 AM.
12-08-2004, 12:17 PM
#133
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Originally Posted by doccable
Omicron -
OK... so now a request for an update. What's the wear like after 9 months of use? How are they holding up and how many miles have you put on these tires since March 9th? I took my 8 in yesterday for routine service, (who can blame me? after almost two weeks of solid sub-freezing temps, snow that seemed unwilling to melt... I needed to get out on the first real decent day And this time, I remembered both the airaplane and a the gas). When the tech had my baby on the lift, he checked the tires and found that they are getting down there as far as wear goes... 3/32 in the rear, 7/32 in the front.
Yikes! With just over 14k miles, no less. So, needless to say, I'm gonna be buying myself a little Christmas present. I'll just tell my better half; "Yes, dear. You did buy me a real good gift this year..." :D
OK... so now a request for an update. What's the wear like after 9 months of use? How are they holding up and how many miles have you put on these tires since March 9th? I took my 8 in yesterday for routine service, (who can blame me? after almost two weeks of solid sub-freezing temps, snow that seemed unwilling to melt... I needed to get out on the first real decent day
And this time, I remembered both the airaplane and a the gas). When the tech had my baby on the lift, he checked the tires and found that they are getting down there as far as wear goes... 3/32 in the rear, 7/32 in the front. Yikes! With just over 14k miles, no less. So, needless to say, I'm gonna be buying myself a little Christmas present. I'll just tell my better half; "Yes, dear. You did buy me a real good gift this year..." :D
I've also had a chance to drive the car on truly slick roads, and they did just fine. Snowpack was no problem, and the car felt no worse than my Jeep does on the same thing. Really hard snowpack and ice is more of a problem, BUT, the car handles no worse than our front wheel drive Mazda 6S does, which also has all season tires on it. The backend is slightly more willing to swing out if I corner too quickly on ice, but it's very controllable. Rear tires are also a bit more willing to break loose if I goose the gas than the FWD 6's, but not much. All in all I'm comfortable saying that unless the snow is so deep that ground clearance is an issue, I could at least get home in my '8 regardless of what the roads are like.
So overall, these tires are ideal for me and what I wanted them for - all season capability, great handling, and even ok for occational track use. Hope this helps!
12-09-2004, 04:17 PM
#135
Insanely Yellow
HOORAY! Tire Rack finally shipped my P-Zeros!
I'm one of the few, the proud, the all-seasoned tire types - with the amount I drive and the fact that I don't have a commute combined with the fact that in suburban Chicago they take care of the roads insanely well, I decided that rather than go with winter tires, I'd just replace the stock shoes with ultra-high performance All Seasons. The best rated all seasons (per TireRack) are the Pirelli PZero Nero M+S - in a size 245/40-18 for the RX-8. They rate better in overall traction, better in wet, better dry than the stock tires, and rate fairly close to a winter tire in snow traction.
So, for me, a good choice.
Anyway, the damn thing have been on backorder for 3 months - I ordered them in early September, and I got the shipment confirmation today. Should have them tomorrow as they shipped only 100 miles (South Bend IN to Chicago).
So, I'll let you know how they are when I get them on the car. Omicron loves his, and influcenced my decision heavily.
Stew
So, for me, a good choice.
Anyway, the damn thing have been on backorder for 3 months - I ordered them in early September, and I got the shipment confirmation today. Should have them tomorrow as they shipped only 100 miles (South Bend IN to Chicago).
So, I'll let you know how they are when I get them on the car. Omicron loves his, and influcenced my decision heavily.
Stew
12-09-2004, 04:30 PM
#137
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Very cool. I still love mine too. so far I've put about 5500 miles on the PZeros, and they are wearing like iron... they hardly show any wear at all. I'm thinkin I'll get 20,000-25,000 miles out of them easily.
I've also had a chance to drive the car on truly slick roads, and they did just fine. Snowpack was no problem, and the car felt no worse than my Jeep does on the same thing. Really hard snowpack and ice is more of a problem, BUT, the car handles no worse than our front wheel drive Mazda 6S does, which also has all season tires on it. The backend is slightly more willing to swing out if I corner too quickly on ice, but it's very controllable. Rear tires are also a bit more willing to break loose if I goose the gas than the FWD 6's, but not much. All in all I'm comfortable saying that unless the snow is so deep that ground clearance is an issue, I could at least get home in my '8 regardless of what the roads are like.
So overall, these tires are ideal for me and what I wanted them for - all season capability, great handling, and even ok for occational track use.
One thing though... expect them to feel a tad "squishy" at first. Nothing bad, just different. And, it goes away in a few hundred miles.
Anyway, glad I was able to help you make the decision. Be sure to report back on how you like 'em after you get them on your car! :D
I've also had a chance to drive the car on truly slick roads, and they did just fine. Snowpack was no problem, and the car felt no worse than my Jeep does on the same thing. Really hard snowpack and ice is more of a problem, BUT, the car handles no worse than our front wheel drive Mazda 6S does, which also has all season tires on it. The backend is slightly more willing to swing out if I corner too quickly on ice, but it's very controllable. Rear tires are also a bit more willing to break loose if I goose the gas than the FWD 6's, but not much. All in all I'm comfortable saying that unless the snow is so deep that ground clearance is an issue, I could at least get home in my '8 regardless of what the roads are like.
So overall, these tires are ideal for me and what I wanted them for - all season capability, great handling, and even ok for occational track use.
One thing though... expect them to feel a tad "squishy" at first. Nothing bad, just different. And, it goes away in a few hundred miles.
Anyway, glad I was able to help you make the decision. Be sure to report back on how you like 'em after you get them on your car! :D
12-09-2004, 05:09 PM
#138
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Snow Tires
Talk about timing, I had 17" steel wheels and Toyo Garit HT snows put on thursday the 2nd December. Mondays rush hour <morning >drive had a lot of Toronto drivers spinning around. I was curious as to how the 8 would deal with it, the girlfriend thought I was insane because I kept repeating how we were cruising compared to general traffic. 80kph no problem, large relief. Traction control + Snow tires = better traction than my MX6, however I was able to leave hi-performance tires on the MX6 year round.
12-09-2004, 11:30 PM
#139
Insanely Yellow
Check out the side-by-side ratings of the Stock RE040's with the Pirelli All Seasons - why again SHOULDN'T I be driving all-seasons?
Category RE040 PZero Nero M+S
HANDLING RATING 7.60 8.80
DRY TRACTION 8 9.1
WET TRACTION 6.6 8.8
SNOW TRACTION N/A 7.4
RIDE COMFORT 6.2 8.8
NOISE COMFORT 5.6 8.8
WEAR 4.6 8.7
TREADWEAR RATING 140 400
TRACTION RATING A A
TEMPERATURE RATING A A
'nuff said!
Category RE040 PZero Nero M+S
HANDLING RATING 7.60 8.80
DRY TRACTION 8 9.1
WET TRACTION 6.6 8.8
SNOW TRACTION N/A 7.4
RIDE COMFORT 6.2 8.8
NOISE COMFORT 5.6 8.8
WEAR 4.6 8.7
TREADWEAR RATING 140 400
TRACTION RATING A A
TEMPERATURE RATING A A
'nuff said!
12-10-2004, 12:31 AM
#140
thank for the review, i was wondering how they were doing. i am going to put them on my car when time comes, the combo of handling, ride and quiet is apealing even in fla.
btw how is ths dsc in snow, i was a professional skier for nine years. had a 85 subaru 4wd wagon that i gave away to a family in need just before i got the 8.
i get a kick of the car fixing itself in the wet cant imaigine what it does in the snow.
beers
btw how is ths dsc in snow, i was a professional skier for nine years. had a 85 subaru 4wd wagon that i gave away to a family in need just before i got the 8.
i get a kick of the car fixing itself in the wet cant imaigine what it does in the snow.
beers
12-11-2004, 06:18 AM
#143
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Ratings don't tell the whole story.
I planned on getting PZeros since last spring, but they've been unavailable. A couple months ago, I got a nail-in-a-sidewall in one of my RE40s, so I decided to stop waiting for the PZeros and ordered a set of Continental ContactExtremes.
They grip well, but body roll increased more than I'd expected and steering feedback diminished slightly. Overall, the car just doesn't feel quite as responsive and I was disappointed... I knew they wouldn't be as good as the RE40s (or PZeros), but I think my expectations were too high.
I ended up buying a set of used stock rims/tires/TPMSs, so now the Continentals are my winter tires.
Anyway, let us know how you like them.
I planned on getting PZeros since last spring, but they've been unavailable. A couple months ago, I got a nail-in-a-sidewall in one of my RE40s, so I decided to stop waiting for the PZeros and ordered a set of Continental ContactExtremes.
They grip well, but body roll increased more than I'd expected and steering feedback diminished slightly. Overall, the car just doesn't feel quite as responsive and I was disappointed... I knew they wouldn't be as good as the RE40s (or PZeros), but I think my expectations were too high.
I ended up buying a set of used stock rims/tires/TPMSs, so now the Continentals are my winter tires.
Anyway, let us know how you like them.
12-11-2004, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Omicron
One thing though... expect them to feel a tad "squishy" at first. Nothing bad, just different. And, it goes away in a few hundred miles.
12-11-2004, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by mdmaclean
Omicron, have you tried another RX-8 with RE040's after you had the Nero's for a while? I was wondering if the squishy went away, or if you just got used to it. I know for myself, I get used to my winter tires, but when the summer tires go on, I am amazed at the difference.
12-11-2004, 11:14 AM
#146
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Originally Posted by swoope
thank for the review, i was wondering how they were doing. i am going to put them on my car when time comes, the combo of handling, ride and quiet is apealing even in fla.
btw how is ths dsc in snow, i was a professional skier for nine years. had a 85 subaru 4wd wagon that i gave away to a family in need just before i got the 8.
i get a kick of the car fixing itself in the wet cant imaigine what it does in the snow.
beers
btw how is ths dsc in snow, i was a professional skier for nine years. had a 85 subaru 4wd wagon that i gave away to a family in need just before i got the 8.
i get a kick of the car fixing itself in the wet cant imaigine what it does in the snow.
beers
12-12-2004, 02:08 AM
#147
i miss hanging out the roo wagon. the stuff i did and got away with. if i had the 8 in snow i think i would drive like you, not worth the risk, but i would love to know how much stupid the dsc can fix.
btw, 47deg in orlando right now, hot tub weather.
beers
btw, 47deg in orlando right now, hot tub weather.
beers
12-12-2004, 09:56 PM
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In the spring I will need new summer tires, and I am debating between the Toyo Proxes 4 and the PZero Nero M+S. Where I am, they are exactly the same price, but the Toyo is lighter, but the Nero seems more fully reviewed here and on Tire Rack.
The posts here make it hard not to go with the Nero's!
The posts here make it hard not to go with the Nero's!
12-12-2004, 11:50 PM
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For whatever it's worth, I almost went with the Toyo Proxes 4s. Only thing that decided me on the Neros was they were a little cheaper, had a little longer treadlife, and had universally positive customer reviews on Tirerack.