risky business

Hey guys, I've been monitoring these forums for quite some time and done a ton of searching trying to figure out what I want to buy. I want my car to be as stiff as possible. However I am 18 and i'm on my own so I don't have money laying around. I've got my mind made up that I want Sprint Springs, Koni Yellows, and Progressive sway bars.

My question is about the order in which I should buy them. I can afford to get the springs and sways first, or the shocks. The reason being the springs and sways together are about the same price as the shocks. So which do you think will make a bigger difference in the way the car feels?

Thanks in advance.

dillsrotary

if you plan on doing springs and shocks do them at the same time since the labor involved is the exact same process. It'll be a waste of time and money to do springs then a month later do shocks.

risky business

Actually, i'm a mechanic so the labor is free :P

-and since I have a lift at work, I don't really mind spending twice as long to do it a month apart

dillsrotary

well if you do not mind the time it'll consume then most here will say that sways will greatly stiffen the ride up more than the springs and shocks. So go for the sways and springs and then the shocks last.

risky business

alright, thanks dills. that's what I was leaning towards, I just wanted a second opinion.

shaunv74

I would say do just the sways first. Then wait until you can do the springs and shocks together because the underdamped shocks on the stiffer springs will get worn out quickly and hurt the handling overall IMHO.

HeavyMetal699

Honestly try to find someone local with a set up you are thinking about and ask for a ride.

The Koni's made the biggest difference for me. I'll be able to give a true opinion once my tires come in and I can autocross with some sticky rubber.

invasion08

iTrader: (7)

Well do the springs and shocks together since after the install you and going to need a wheel alignment

stuntman

The rebound-adjustable Koni Yellows are one of the best shock choices out there, for just replacing the shocks.

I would also agree on changing both the springs and the shocks at the same time since it will be easier than doing it twice. Personally, how badly do you really need the spring/shock/swaybars? I would wait to do them all at once, but if not, then I agree on swaybars first, then do springs and shocks, but if you are closer to being able to afford the spring/shock combination first (at the same time) i'd rather do that then do the swaybars later.


Have you considered any coilover options? Your suspension is the single aspect of your car that affects the enjoyment of being in your car every second you are in it. I would invest in a setup that won't beat the crap out of you and make you uncomforatble and upset with your decision. I'm not familiar with the sprint springs, but the Koni's definately are a great shock option. I would consider looking into these two coilover options, but remember, a stiffer, harsher, bouncier ride dosn't = a faster car or better handling car. The softer the spring rates combined with proper damping (the damping controls the movement/handling of your car) will out-handle an over-sprung and bouncy car that is hopping and upsetting the platform.


Two great options for the RX8 would be the:

KW Variant 3 - double adjustable (separate compression and rebound)
JIC FLT-A2 - single adjustable.


KW:
http://www.kw-suspension.com/en/
KW is the OEM supplier for the Nurburgring Production Car track record holder - Dodge Viper ACR

KW comes as standard OEM equipment on: Viper ACR, Mercedes CLK63 Black Edition, and is the aftermarket supplier for famed Ferrari Tuner: Novitec Rosso, and many more that I can't remember... They also make aftermarket coilovers for Porsche Boxter to Carrera GT, Ford GT, Nissan GTR, Ferrari Enzo and FXX, F430, RX8, Many BMWs, Nissan 350Z, S2000, NSX, Chrystler 300/Dodge Magnum, Viper, Mazda 3/Mazdaspeed3, Corvette, and many many more..

The double adjustable feature allows for much more fine tuning of the car's handling. Their aren't too many options on the market that are double adjustable. The highspeed compression that controls the car over bumps or when hitting curbs are pre-set by KW engineers and allows for a compliant car and GREAT ride quality on the street. KW's philosophy is to use the softest spring rates possible, softer springs generate more grip anyway (some GT cars in Grand Am run spring rates 200-500lbs!) -keeping the tires on the ground and generating grip. Low speed compression is adjustable to control body roll during cornering, and rebound is separately adjustable.

KW has won many championships in FIA-GT, WTCC, and many more european racing series and are well-known and regarded in Europe, as well as the supplier to Flying Lizard ALMS Championship-winning GT2-class Porsche RSR.



JIC:
I really like the performance, handling, and characteristics of the FLT-A2 on the RX8. a FLT-A2-equipped RX8 qualified 6th at Mid-Ohio for the Grand Am Cup (Koni Challenge) ST class competing against 3-way adjustable race dampers like Moton, JRZ, and Koni.
www.jic-magic.com


E-mail if you have any questions on either - Billj747@hotmail.com

risky business

well i've changed my mind to tein s-specs for ride height reasons. and yes i have thought about high quality coilovers but i really cant afford that and it would take forever for me to save that much. and im also aware that stiffer doesnt always equal better. however i like my car to be as stiff as possible. i live in florida, not many corners...

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Concur with other's advice that upgraded sways will yield the highest return on your investment.

Keep in mind tho' that all mod's are compromises. A stiffer ride is of course advantageous on the track where you're loking for consistent, low roll, precise control. However on the street, with its widely varying quality of surfacing (especially in the NorthEast!) you have to factor in an ability to provide a bit more comfort in a daily driver.

Also keep in mind that your tires are an integral component of the suspension/handling equation.

stuntman

Their aren't many corners so you want a stiff ride?

Swaybars won't affect the ride quality or 'stiffness' in a straight line.
A stiff ride dosn't necessarily = faster/advantageous on the track. Read post #9

LionZoo

A suspension's job in performance driving is to maximize the use of a tire's grip envelope. Having the suspension being as stiff as possibly might not be the best way to extract the potential of the tires. Think about just one point for a second; all that weight transfer energy has to go somewhere and if the suspension isn't absorbing it, other parts of the car, including the tire sidewalls, will.

risky business

sorry guys, most of my posts are made at work where i have to think quickly and type before i have complete thoughts formed lol.

i track quite often which is 1 reason why i want it stiff.
i know that sways wont make it stiffer in a straight line, but i will feel it at the track or on an on ramp or in north carolina lol... (even tho i live in fl i go up there a few times a year)
when i say "as stiff as possible" i do mean it, but only to a certain extent... obviously i would not enjoy driving a car with poles for shocks lol... however im not one who will mind a "track" setup on the street... i love feeling the road and not being isolated from it.. and most streets in my area are smooth so i wont be irritated with nasty rough streets

(my last car was a stripped out 86 911, no carpet, no a/c (in florida), no radio, no sound insulation.. it was very loud and very hot... i stripped it for lightness so it would be faster...)

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Damn, so the rx8 must feel like a bentley compared to that

risky business

^ lol no bently.... i do miss the rawness of my 911. if rawness is a word. it was truly a big go-kart. but i enjoy the 8 a lot more then i did my 911... ac is very nice haha.. plus i can fit people in the back... i still gave people rides in the 911 in the back but i took out the seats and seatbelts and carpeting so they were sitting on bar metal seats back there.... not very safe.

stuntman

Re-read post #9.

Despite bouncing and jarring the heck out of you, and feeling like a 'racer', stiffer springs dont = more grip or a faster track car. Again, many real race cars try to utilize the softest springs they can.

0.02

Senna

^^ Yeah but stiffer springs help the car take a set sooner. Overall I'd say a stiffer setup altogether makes for a faster track car. Maybe not springs alone. It really depends on the track your running on and the condition of the surface not to mention the chasis you are running. Minimizing weight transfer is obviously a good thing.

I called Speedsource at the recommendation of Racing Beat because I was trying to make a decision on coilovers vs D-Spec or Koni and RB or swift springs set up and the rates they told me they run are way high-if I remember right, well north of 500 lbs front and rear. But consider the tracks they run.
Lime Rock is probably an example of a place where you want to be on the softer side. I suspect the GXP.R's are running softer setups. But they have a longer wheel base which allows the car to conform to or absorb the track better vs skim along the top. I've noticed that the Pontiac's have a lot more nose dive under threshold breaking than the 8's and Porsches.

Another consideration is driver skill. The stiffer the suspension the sharper the edge you're on. If you're car control skills are weak you're likely to find yourself over your head particularly in a high HP car.

I'm no expert yet so set me straight if I'm off...BTW I'm still on stock shocks and springs. Trying to hold out for a decent set of coilovers.

I8U

iTrader: (1)

HEHE, I love it when drivers get all technical! Senna, did you ask Speedsource how they run their ST car? Cuz there is quite a bit difference between the 2 setups. I know they run higher spring rates and higher shock settings in their GT cars as for their ST car, which is as close to stock as they come out of all the ST 8's, you may want to get your info on that.

Also, if you really want good info on shock/spring setup talk to some of the other Grand-Am RX-8 teams out there, maybe Hickham Motorsports or Brass Mitchell Racing or even this other team...oh yeah ROAR Racing...hehe.

Senna

You know I should've asked specifically about their ST cars but I didn't. No doubt there has to be huge difference between the Tube Chassis GT car and the ST.

Something moderately stiff would probably work well enough for me. I do most of my track days at Buttonwillow so going too stiff would be counter-productive. Really at this stage I just need a system that I can set and forget.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The car stock is under sprung and under damped.....

A lot of the ST cars are restricted by the rules in what they can use on their cars.....

The GT RX-8's have very expensive dampers and spring setups that we could only hope to afford for our stock 8's

Somewhere in between is where most of us end up.

Different driving styles must also be factored into the mix.... as well as alignment and tires....

I like stiff sways and slightly softer springs.....so I went with the KW's and the Progress sways...gave me adjust ability and a good balance for the way I drive

and what I can afford

I8U

iTrader: (1)

Well, the ST cars must now run KONI suspension...so, that limits us a bit because we use to run JRZ triple adjustables, definitely not the cheapest coilover setup on the market. Also, we ran Speedsource sways for a bit and now are running RB. You also have to consider the level of driving you are gonna be doing too as well as your ability to be doing that driving.

Senna

Dannobre, Any issues with the KW's reservoir hitting the A arm. I read somewhere here that at least one person had an issue with this.

I8U- Do the rear Konis have to be removed to be adjusted?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

The newer fronts don't have the reservoir anymore.....so no problems

stuntman

Link? -I've never heard of this problem...