Racing Brake 2-Piece rotors
08-16-2010, 10:56 AM
#27
justjim
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I don't have any experience with the RB 2-piece rotors so this is just an opinion but I suspect that the new design works just as well as the older open design. There is plenty of room for air to come in the back side of the rotor hat center. If you ever added dedicated brake ducts to the rotor hat it would acutually be a plus because the ducted air would be confined to the hat center and wouldn't escape through to the outside.
Some people on the Mitsubishi 3000GT forum have seen 1-piece blank rotors (NOT RBs) crack and separate at the rotor hat rotor surface junction and RB may have decided more was better in that area. These are pictures of a separated 1-piece (yeah its not supposed to be a 2-piece) Mitsubishi rotor. I wouldn't sweat it.
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Some people on the Mitsubishi 3000GT forum have seen 1-piece blank rotors (NOT RBs) crack and separate at the rotor hat rotor surface junction and RB may have decided more was better in that area. These are pictures of a separated 1-piece (yeah its not supposed to be a 2-piece) Mitsubishi rotor. I wouldn't sweat it.
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Last edited by justjim; 08-16-2010 at 11:19 AM.
08-16-2010, 11:40 AM
#28
I agree completely, you guys are making a mountain out of a grain of sand.
On my first kit I had one of the first set of rear rotors and didn't have any interference. On the current set I did have this happen; exact same vehicle. As someone else noted you don't really need to do anything more than drive it for several minutes and it will clearance itself. It is just barely rubbing on the very end of the rotor hat screws where they extend past the nut slightly. It's entirely inconsequential.
On my first kit I had one of the first set of rear rotors and didn't have any interference. On the current set I did have this happen; exact same vehicle. As someone else noted you don't really need to do anything more than drive it for several minutes and it will clearance itself. It is just barely rubbing on the very end of the rotor hat screws where they extend past the nut slightly. It's entirely inconsequential.
08-16-2010, 12:28 PM
#29
RX8. Yeah, I get it.
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Jantzen I too discovered the bracket scraping clearance issue and I had to use a bench grinder to take away the excess material on the OEM calipers brackets....and it wasn't just a bit here and there but a good slice of each side of each one. I don't see how RB could have test fitted them sucessfully without this being done. Kind of strange and a bit of PITA work to take so much off the caliper brackets.
First set I got years ago I had just the front ones. Same issue but much less of a problem. Rather than grinding, I just put a washer on the bracket bolts to hold them a bit inwards. That worked, but this time there was much more interference and I wanted to do it 'right' lol.
First set I got years ago I had just the front ones. Same issue but much less of a problem. Rather than grinding, I just put a washer on the bracket bolts to hold them a bit inwards. That worked, but this time there was much more interference and I wanted to do it 'right' lol.
And call me dumb or w/e...but one of the reasons I bought these rotors was the windowed hats. I liked the reasoning and purpose of their patented center mount design including "More efficient air ventilation – Center mount provides air inlets from both inboard and outboard sides." The 2 piece hats are now essentially "surface" mounts. Which from their website (concerning surface mount hats), "Air ventilation is not very efficient because it admits air only from one side (inboard)" I also liked the appearance. Guess Im just ranting cos I paid $2500 bucks for something I wont be receiving. Im not questioning RBs quality, Im sure the equipment will be great, Id just like to see their info updated as what exactly they are selling. Ill be installing Friday, we will see if R3 calipers are required to be grinded down...../end rant.
08-16-2010, 12:58 PM
#30
Got a reply email back and got some clarification from RacingBrake:
It appeared that everyone was getting confused between "center mount" design and the "scalloped cut" hat design (which they are calling "open hat design").
"Center mount" just means that the hat is mounted at the center of the disc, rather than on the surface. All Rx8 two-piece rotors always have been, and still are center mounted.
However, in the last production run, RacingBrake changed the design of the rotor from the scallop cut edge to a standard edge to increase the strength of the hat. The caption below the photo on each product page states that the photo is "for reference only."
For the foreseeable future, all Rx8 two-piece rotors will have the standard hat, not the scalloped cut hat.
It appeared that everyone was getting confused between "center mount" design and the "scalloped cut" hat design (which they are calling "open hat design").
"Center mount" just means that the hat is mounted at the center of the disc, rather than on the surface. All Rx8 two-piece rotors always have been, and still are center mounted.
However, in the last production run, RacingBrake changed the design of the rotor from the scallop cut edge to a standard edge to increase the strength of the hat. The caption below the photo on each product page states that the photo is "for reference only."
For the foreseeable future, all Rx8 two-piece rotors will have the standard hat, not the scalloped cut hat.
08-16-2010, 01:25 PM
#31
It seems they changed the design and now everyone has to grind their calipers..as opposed to a "small %" of people grinding their calipers with the old design. If everyone is required to grind their calipers due to a design change, and that change isn't even shown or discussed on the website - that doesn't seem right to me. Why would a product be released if it doesn't fit right?
And call me dumb or w/e...but one of the reasons I bought these rotors was the windowed hats. I liked the reasoning and purpose of their patented center mount design including "More efficient air ventilation – Center mount provides air inlets from both inboard and outboard sides." The 2 piece hats are now essentially "surface" mounts. Which from their website (concerning surface mount hats), "Air ventilation is not very efficient because it admits air only from one side (inboard)" I also liked the appearance. Guess Im just ranting cos I paid $2500 bucks for something I wont be receiving. Im not questioning RBs quality, Im sure the equipment will be great, Id just like to see their info updated as what exactly they are selling. Ill be installing Friday, we will see if R3 calipers are required to be grinded down...../end rant.
And call me dumb or w/e...but one of the reasons I bought these rotors was the windowed hats. I liked the reasoning and purpose of their patented center mount design including "More efficient air ventilation – Center mount provides air inlets from both inboard and outboard sides." The 2 piece hats are now essentially "surface" mounts. Which from their website (concerning surface mount hats), "Air ventilation is not very efficient because it admits air only from one side (inboard)" I also liked the appearance. Guess Im just ranting cos I paid $2500 bucks for something I wont be receiving. Im not questioning RBs quality, Im sure the equipment will be great, Id just like to see their info updated as what exactly they are selling. Ill be installing Friday, we will see if R3 calipers are required to be grinded down...../end rant.
08-16-2010, 01:43 PM
#33
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RX8pwnage -- The new design is definitely not just like a surface mount. IIRC on a surface mount rotor the hat would not be flush with the outside face of the rotor. It would stick out since the tabs would be flush with the outside face of the rotor. These ones have the tab recessed so the hat mounts flush.
RR -- Thanks for posting Mike's response Brice. I've followed up with a question about how using the new hat cools any better than a surface mounted hat. I'm just not sure why one would be superior to the other (for cooling purposes only) as long as they both allowed for outboard cooling.
Team -- i agree with your mountain comment. I'm not concerned about the new design as much as some people are here but we might as well get some answers while we're on the topic. Lets not go too far off the deep end on this one ok guys
RR -- Thanks for posting Mike's response Brice. I've followed up with a question about how using the new hat cools any better than a surface mounted hat. I'm just not sure why one would be superior to the other (for cooling purposes only) as long as they both allowed for outboard cooling.
Team -- i agree with your mountain comment. I'm not concerned about the new design as much as some people are here but we might as well get some answers while we're on the topic. Lets not go too far off the deep end on this one ok guys
08-16-2010, 02:46 PM
#34
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Again, I don't think it is a big deal(as TEAM has so eloquently pointed out), but they probably should update the site(in my opinion). Maybe not the pictures so much, but definitely the diagrams and verbiage. So I somewhat have to agree with RX8pwnage on this one.
Oh...and not sure that there is any evidence that they old design required any less grinding than the new RX8pwnage.
Seems you just got lucky or you didn't.
Didn't mean to cause such a stir, I just noticed the looked different....and that began me looking closer.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 08-16-2010 at 02:55 PM.
08-16-2010, 09:05 PM
#35
All that matters is this; kick *** brake package for a great price. 
It's still the same hat dimensions, they just don't cut out the scallops, factory tolerance stack ups vary, use your head people
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It's still the same hat dimensions, they just don't cut out the scallops, factory tolerance stack ups vary, use your head people
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Last edited by TeamRX8; 08-16-2010 at 09:11 PM.
08-17-2010, 08:25 AM
#36
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Well maybe I'm old school - No, I definitely am 
[
] BUT to say that it's ok and normal that something like finely machined and engineered rotors you pay uber premium money for - $500-600 a pair - don't need to actually fit on your car without the use of a bench grinder to shave perhaps a 1/8 to 1/16 inch x 3 inch of cast iron in places - is, in and of itself ridiculous if not comical - whether it's due to 'tolerances' (aka poor inital test fitting research) or simple poor engineering - whatever. And also saying in so many words to "just run them on your car and use the rotor hat bolts (that RB urges to so carefully torque) as a lathe cutting tool", well, there are no other words - is just plain dumb, if not dangerous - we are talking major safety equipment not battery brackets here.
Damage to the bolts, hats, and the caliper brackets are the more likely result of this. For example, at a minimum - when you may want to replace the rotor rings, will those bolts / special nuts actually come off and/or be reuseable? Doubtful.
Ok - I admit I didn't call them out on it when I purchased this spring and installed
only beacause I'm so used to shody product from just about anyone I buy from ... regardless of price. AND expediency - I have the easy ability and access to tools and the skill to handle it myself rather than going thru the hassel of trying to get THEM to "fix" their own pooorly designed product. AND (worse still) it had happened years before and I EXPECTED PROBLEMS!!!!!
But what if I lived in an apartment with no tools and only a parking lot to jack the car up and work in??? Game over. Uber $$$$$ not well spent....or I'd have to pay even more to get someone else to "fix" the engineering shortcoming of RB. Angry wouldn't begin to describe my reaction.
Bottom line, it reflects poorly on RB and their products - regardless of how well they function otherwise - just saying we shouldn't even be having this discussion - but sadly we are having it and arguing about whether it's OK to produce products that cause problems for purchasers. [/]
[
] BUT to say that it's ok and normal that something like finely machined and engineered rotors you pay uber premium money for - $500-600 a pair - don't need to actually fit on your car without the use of a bench grinder to shave perhaps a 1/8 to 1/16 inch x 3 inch of cast iron in places - is, in and of itself ridiculous if not comical - whether it's due to 'tolerances' (aka poor inital test fitting research) or simple poor engineering - whatever. And also saying in so many words to "just run them on your car and use the rotor hat bolts (that RB urges to so carefully torque) as a lathe cutting tool", well, there are no other words - is just plain dumb, if not dangerous - we are talking major safety equipment not battery brackets here.Damage to the bolts, hats, and the caliper brackets are the more likely result of this. For example, at a minimum - when you may want to replace the rotor rings, will those bolts / special nuts actually come off and/or be reuseable? Doubtful.
Ok - I admit I didn't call them out on it when I purchased this spring and installed
only beacause I'm so used to shody product from just about anyone I buy from ... regardless of price. AND expediency - I have the easy ability and access to tools and the skill to handle it myself rather than going thru the hassel of trying to get THEM to "fix" their own pooorly designed product. AND (worse still) it had happened years before and I EXPECTED PROBLEMS!!!!!But what if I lived in an apartment with no tools and only a parking lot to jack the car up and work in??? Game over. Uber $$$$$ not well spent....or I'd have to pay even more to get someone else to "fix" the engineering shortcoming of RB. Angry wouldn't begin to describe my reaction.
Bottom line, it reflects poorly on RB and their products - regardless of how well they function otherwise - just saying we shouldn't even be having this discussion - but sadly we are having it and arguing about whether it's OK to produce products that cause problems for purchasers. [/
]
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-17-2010 at 08:29 AM.
08-17-2010, 08:39 AM
#37
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Apologies to the OP for straying from the subject, but just for laughs, check out this stupidity (again RB problem). I ordered sold rear slotted rotor to save a bit - and look what they sent. I only realized this ahh..."snafu" after running it for a bit....
Pretty huh? Another POORLY designed RB product, if it was designed for the 8 at all (probably some other cars rotor that "sorta" fit the 8), Nicely machined so that the pad doesn't cover the rotor sweep area and slots leaving it to rust til the cows come home for all to see. Idiots and another example of ........... (you fill in the blanks!)
But it's ok, right?
Pretty huh? Another POORLY designed RB product, if it was designed for the 8 at all (probably some other cars rotor that "sorta" fit the 8), Nicely machined so that the pad doesn't cover the rotor sweep area and slots leaving it to rust til the cows come home for all to see. Idiots and another example of ........... (you fill in the blanks!)
But it's ok, right?
Last edited by Spin9k; 08-17-2010 at 08:44 AM.
08-17-2010, 09:52 AM
#38
Not exactly true on every picture, every diagram, and on every page Brice. Especially those diagrams/pages that talk directly about the open hat design.
Again, I don't think it is a big deal(as TEAM has so eloquently pointed out), but they probably should update the site(in my opinion). Maybe not the pictures so much, but definitely the diagrams and verbiage. So I somewhat have to agree with RX8pwnage on this one.
Oh...and not sure that there is any evidence that they old design required any less grinding than the new RX8pwnage.
Seems you just got lucky or you didn't.
Didn't mean to cause such a stir, I just noticed the looked different....and that began me looking closer.
Again, I don't think it is a big deal(as TEAM has so eloquently pointed out), but they probably should update the site(in my opinion). Maybe not the pictures so much, but definitely the diagrams and verbiage. So I somewhat have to agree with RX8pwnage on this one.
Oh...and not sure that there is any evidence that they old design required any less grinding than the new RX8pwnage.
Seems you just got lucky or you didn't.
Didn't mean to cause such a stir, I just noticed the looked different....and that began me looking closer.
08-17-2010, 11:07 AM
#39
dude --that sucks and i would raise hell. That brake disc is NOT going to vent as well imho.
I have always thought of Racing brake as a top quality supplier. People usually will pay well for that reputation AND a good product.
Well, if you will excuse my language---This is Crap! Both examples.
No more RB brake discs for me and I really appreciate the op for posting and the others that followed.
Wake up suppliers --you can loose a customer base with the blink of the eye.
OD
I have always thought of Racing brake as a top quality supplier. People usually will pay well for that reputation AND a good product.
Well, if you will excuse my language---This is Crap! Both examples.
No more RB brake discs for me and I really appreciate the op for posting and the others that followed.
Wake up suppliers --you can loose a customer base with the blink of the eye.
OD
Last edited by olddragger; 08-17-2010 at 11:17 AM.
08-17-2010, 03:49 PM
#40
I can only comment on the 2-pc kits, which have been excellent. I can understand that Spin is upset. That's the first I've ever seen or heard of that and it appears to be a 1-pc rotor(?). I would have expected all the other people on this forum with them to have brought this up?
I can post a pic of the rear 2-pc rotor interference issue. It is so minimal as to be laughable compared to your commentary. It's a couple thousandths just on the corner edge. I understand you're upset, but you obviously have no direct experience with the 2-pc kits. I've been pleased enough to have bought two full RX-8 brake kits when most people will likely ever buy only one. Just to be clear, I paid for both kits from my own pocket. I'm not sponsored or receiving free parts from RB.
Sorry for your specific problem though. Did you ever speak to anyone at RB about it?
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I can post a pic of the rear 2-pc rotor interference issue. It is so minimal as to be laughable compared to your commentary. It's a couple thousandths just on the corner edge. I understand you're upset, but you obviously have no direct experience with the 2-pc kits. I've been pleased enough to have bought two full RX-8 brake kits when most people will likely ever buy only one. Just to be clear, I paid for both kits from my own pocket. I'm not sponsored or receiving free parts from RB.
Sorry for your specific problem though. Did you ever speak to anyone at RB about it?
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 08-17-2010 at 03:52 PM.
08-17-2010, 04:14 PM
#41
Momentum Keeps Me Going
^ I have the (both new and old) 2-pc fronts myself and for the new I had to use a bench grinder on my brackets ... and I can assure you ... it was not simply taking "a couple thousanths" off the brackets. See the picture posted earlier in the thread and add a bunch more needing to be ground down. I'd take a picture and show you but obviously they are mounted on the car now and really the issue is over and done as far as I'm concerned.
It did esp. pissed me off at the time because I'd purchased a new G2 paint kit, cleaned the caliper and bracket completely, power sanded and power wire brushed it nicely and had them all painted up AGAIN - THEN I had to go an use a grinder on them removing newing applied epoxy paint along with the metal to get the rotors to fit.
Obviously Mazda's brakets are rough cast and results vary (apparently greatly) between bracket castings on different cars, but mine WERE bad enough that it was no small task to get enough off to make them functional.
EOS
=====
As for the 1 pc kit, after contacting them today they replied that they are getting new rotors in shortly, and IF (my capitalization) the new rotors will correct the problem (I guess they don't know yet) they will send me another set. I applaud RB for stepping up to the plate and quickly offering a possible fix. They are good guys no doubt ablout it. I just hope that the blanks they get will actually fix the problem. Otherwise they said they'll refund my money.
I certainly believe RB wants to do the right thing, and they are, I just wish they have checked what they shipped more carefully and didn't have to and the product was "right' out of the box the 1st time.
I'll keep everyone posted on the eventual result.
It did esp. pissed me off at the time because I'd purchased a new G2 paint kit, cleaned the caliper and bracket completely, power sanded and power wire brushed it nicely and had them all painted up AGAIN - THEN I had to go an use a grinder on them removing newing applied epoxy paint along with the metal to get the rotors to fit.
Obviously Mazda's brakets are rough cast and results vary (apparently greatly) between bracket castings on different cars, but mine WERE bad enough that it was no small task to get enough off to make them functional.
EOS
=====
As for the 1 pc kit, after contacting them today they replied that they are getting new rotors in shortly, and IF (my capitalization) the new rotors will correct the problem (I guess they don't know yet) they will send me another set. I applaud RB for stepping up to the plate and quickly offering a possible fix. They are good guys no doubt ablout it. I just hope that the blanks they get will actually fix the problem. Otherwise they said they'll refund my money.
I certainly believe RB wants to do the right thing, and they are, I just wish they have checked what they shipped more carefully and didn't have to and the product was "right' out of the box the 1st time.
I'll keep everyone posted on the eventual result.
08-17-2010, 04:34 PM
#42
RX8. Yeah, I get it.
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As for the 1 pc kit, after contacting them today they replied that they are getting new rotors in shortly, and IF (my capitalization) the new rotors will correct the problem (I guess they don't know yet) they will send me another set. I applaud RB for stepping up to the plate and quickly offering a possible fix. They are good guys no doubt ablout it. I just hope that the blanks they get will actually fix the problem. Otherwise they said they'll refund my money.
Is this referring to your "rust ring?"
08-17-2010, 07:04 PM
#46
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Wow, is a tough issue for me as well TEAM because I have never had an issue with them in any way or with my rotors. True, only one set, but they were perfect, and fit perfect. They worked with me and were very helpful.
I don't think we can blame them at all for the tolerance issue Mazda has with the caliper brackets, so we should leave that one alone.
The rust ring and slotting issue just seen(Spin9k), is well....I guess they they just didn't check before shipping. We all know that can happen unfortunately.
I think the important things is that the haven't gone silent, defensive, or belligerent, and appear to be stepping up. That means a lot to me.
I mainly feel bad for the Jantzen as all he wanted to do show his new rotors and all hell broke loose.
There's no question I would buy from them again, but I will look a little closer when they arrive.
I don't think we can blame them at all for the tolerance issue Mazda has with the caliper brackets, so we should leave that one alone.
The rust ring and slotting issue just seen(Spin9k), is well....I guess they they just didn't check before shipping. We all know that can happen unfortunately.
I think the important things is that the haven't gone silent, defensive, or belligerent, and appear to be stepping up. That means a lot to me.
I mainly feel bad for the Jantzen as all he wanted to do show his new rotors and all hell broke loose.
There's no question I would buy from them again, but I will look a little closer when they arrive.
Last edited by Mazurfer; 08-17-2010 at 07:40 PM.
08-17-2010, 07:10 PM
#47
^ I have the (both new and old) 2-pc fronts myself and for the new I had to use a bench grinder on my brackets ... and I can assure you ... it was not simply taking "a couple thousanths" off the brackets. See the picture posted earlier in the thread and add a bunch more needing to be ground down. I'd take a picture and show you but obviously they are mounted on the car now and really the issue is over and done as far as I'm concerned.
It did esp. pissed me off at the time because I'd purchased a new G2 paint kit, cleaned the caliper and bracket completely, power sanded and power wire brushed it nicely and had them all painted up AGAIN - THEN I had to go an use a grinder on them removing newing applied epoxy paint along with the metal to get the rotors to fit.
Obviously Mazda's brakets are rough cast and results vary (apparently greatly) between bracket castings on different cars, but mine WERE bad enough that it was no small task to get enough off to make them functional.
EOS
=====
As for the 1 pc kit, after contacting them today they replied that they are getting new rotors in shortly, and IF (my capitalization) the new rotors will correct the problem (I guess they don't know yet) they will send me another set. I applaud RB for stepping up to the plate and quickly offering a possible fix. They are good guys no doubt ablout it. I just hope that the blanks they get will actually fix the problem. Otherwise they said they'll refund my money.
I certainly believe RB wants to do the right thing, and they are, I just wish they have checked what they shipped more carefully and didn't have to and the product was "right' out of the box the 1st time.
I'll keep everyone posted on the eventual result.
It did esp. pissed me off at the time because I'd purchased a new G2 paint kit, cleaned the caliper and bracket completely, power sanded and power wire brushed it nicely and had them all painted up AGAIN - THEN I had to go an use a grinder on them removing newing applied epoxy paint along with the metal to get the rotors to fit.
Obviously Mazda's brakets are rough cast and results vary (apparently greatly) between bracket castings on different cars, but mine WERE bad enough that it was no small task to get enough off to make them functional.
EOS
=====
As for the 1 pc kit, after contacting them today they replied that they are getting new rotors in shortly, and IF (my capitalization) the new rotors will correct the problem (I guess they don't know yet) they will send me another set. I applaud RB for stepping up to the plate and quickly offering a possible fix. They are good guys no doubt ablout it. I just hope that the blanks they get will actually fix the problem. Otherwise they said they'll refund my money.
I certainly believe RB wants to do the right thing, and they are, I just wish they have checked what they shipped more carefully and didn't have to and the product was "right' out of the box the 1st time.
I'll keep everyone posted on the eventual result.
They hardly read the forums and I only sent an email as I am their voice in this community and I want them to be aware if there are issues.
All the best
Last edited by Race Roots; 08-18-2010 at 09:53 AM.
08-17-2010, 07:32 PM
#49
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08-17-2010, 07:35 PM
#50
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You were doing great up to there and then you had to go and step in it. He may have jumped the gun, but he's the paying customer with an issue. Even if he did own them an apology you would have been better off to let it go or address it privately rather than put the public poop machine in high gear ....
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Was wondering if anyone was gonna pipe up or wait for Spin9k to see it.