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Will somebody PLEASE tell me I'm not crazy?? I ve had this problem for years. And recently before the lock down I had brand new OEM shocks and springs installed. But the issue persists 1) There is a noticeable difference in the ride height front to back of at least 1 3/4 inches on both sides with rear riding lower than the front. 2) My dealer says this is the correct height after I complained about it when he installed them and then brought it back . 3) If I have anyone in the car with me over 150lbs. the car seems to "bottom out" with a loud , hard bang in the rear. This will sometimes happen when I am driving alone and ride over a bump or catch a quick dip in the road at anywhere near 25-30MPH, sometimes slower. It really jolts my spine.
It sounds like I'm hitting the bump stops in the rear?? Looking at other photos of both stock and modified 8s here and else where the difference is automatically noticeable. Mine sits significantly lower in the back t
han all the rest? How do I raise the rear properly or do I even need to? Except for the loud bang and hard jolt in the back , the car handles fine. Any plausible ideas and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. ( see attached photo) BTW the car is 2005 with only 60K on it and I'm the original owner.I don't beat the **** out of it, I do drive spiritedly though, rev it like I'm s'posed to, and do my best to avoid the potholes here in NYC. I take very good care of an otherwise stock car (save 4: BH Coils & plug wires, KN Typhoon Intake, upgraded brake rotors , SS brake lines & ceramic pads.)
this seems to be a recurring issue and I’m almost wondering if it has to do with the rear shock change starting on the 2009 Series 2 cars.
because the lower shock perch on the 2009+ RX8s is 1/2” higher than the S1. So in theory an S1 Rx8 is going to sit about 1/2” lower in the rear with S2 springs. If they consolidated on S2 rear springs then this would be a potential result. Of which a potential solution is to install 2009+ rear shocks to raise it up about 1/2”.
However, the RX8 is designed with long soft bump stops on the shocks that essentially kick in and acts as secondary springs on hard bumps or when the body rolls over far enough in a hard turn to engage them. So if those were left out, worn, broke off, etc. it could be a possibility. I think some of the people who had this same issue found they were in place though.
so that’s what got me wondering about the 2009+ model rear spring and shock change
black is S2 stock shock, yellow is Koni S1 shock but perch is same as factory S1
also, the ride height measurement is from the center of wheel hub/cap up to the fender lip. If you can confirm the measurements I can check it against the factory manual listings.
Makes sense. I should add that prior to this becoming an issue, I had installed Bilstein PSS 9 coil overs which did provide great performance and handling , but no matter how high or "soft" I set them, daily driving in NYC simply was bone jarring to say the least. I had them removed after a few months, and had the originals replaced. It was after the swap back to the original OEM setup which came with the car that I started having an issue. Hence the reason for the new OEM S&S in late 2019, which, again did not solve the problem. This is what I had installed in late 2009 :
I believed I had installed what were supposed to be "original OEM ( Mazda Speed) Rear Suspension Springs and Shocks " from MazdaTrix for what it's worth.
Having said that, I'll have your measurements tomorrow. Thanks for the reply and the insight RE shock change in 2009.
also, the ride height measurement is from the center of wheel hub/cap up to the fender lip. If you can confirm the measurements I can check it against the factory manual listings.
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Hi TeamRX8 --- OK ,, I Just measured all wheels front/back- L/R, results as follows:
Fronts L/R from center hub to fender lip = 15" both sides
Rears: L/R from center hub to fender lip = 13 1/2 " both sides
I'd say that's significant and not correct. It certainly isn't anecdotal, it's science. The tape measure doesn't lie. And it's sitting in a heated garage on flat concrete, so no deviation for temperature or irregular ground height.
What say ye??
13.5 is on the low end, and 15 is on the high end of stock range. If someone tightened the control arm with the wheels in the air after your replacement, it would preload the bushings and cause the front to sit high. The rear on the other hand could have sagged, or been put together not quite right.
Bottoming out and banging are a pretty good signs the suspension isn't sitting properly.
The spring description doesn't make sense, it's either OEM or MazdaSpeed (which would account for the drop). Do you have the part numbers?
13.5 is on the low end, and 15 is on the high end of stock range. If someone tightened the control arm with the wheels in the air after your replacement, it would preload the bushings and cause the front to sit high. The rear on the other hand could have sagged, or been put together not quite right.
Bottoming out and banging are a pretty good signs the suspension isn't sitting properly.
The spring description doesn't make sense, it's either OEM or MazdaSpeed (which would account for the drop). Do you have the part numbers?
I was another with similar issues of height difference between front and rear. Its weird. By chance i just measured this the other day measuring up at 13.5 rear and 14.5 front after replacing rear multi links after a small bend was found during a routine wheel alignment. Right rear specifically. Its an 05 car.
All 4 coilovers were sourced from a low km 07 car and had bumpstops replaced in these black OEM jobs. Tokiko?? Exact same ride height but less crashing over bumps than old tired coilovers. All torqued to spec from FSM including preloads on both ends. Pretty sure i got it right but still the height difference persists. I now have excellent ride quality other than over the worst of the bumps.
I no longer worry about it but it's definitely a bit weird. I know adjustable coilovers can be dialled in so maybe in the future sometime as needed. No rush now as I'm pretty happy overall. 😃
I’m looking for the same parts for a 2010. When I look at your links they both point to 2005 model year. Possibly the rear height would be low because of the different spring perch heights? I’m still researching to find correct parts for an R3 (rear is the difference between GT and R3, front is identical?). I was looking at Bilstien B6.
By the looks of it, those springs are for the base suspension. You want the sport suspension unless you have a 2004-5 base model automatic? Though to be fair, I didn't think there was a difference.
By the looks of it, those springs are for the base suspension. You want the sport suspension unless you have a 2004-5 base model automatic? Though to be fair, I didn't think there was a difference.
Thanks Loki. Its a GT with and 4 SP- AT. I was thinking to forgo all of the possible issues with swapping out the just the springs. The last time we did that all of the other parts from the old set were used which could mean any one or many them were wasted. What's your thoughts on just going with a pre-loaded fully assembled Strut Assembly?
My dealer quoted me over $230.00 for the strut alone and another $120.00 for the spring -one side. So factoring in all the new bits and other components that I will most likely need I'm easily looking at $400.00 a side not counting labor and no guarantee they'll put it all back together properly again. So to mitigate all the fuss and muss and the high cost and pretty much guarantee a proper install I was considering just buying these for under $200 and be done with it. I've lost all patience, spring is coming and I d like to get some mountain driving in this year without worrying about all of this nonsense already. I'm not tracking the car. I drive it for pleasure and few ***** and giggles here and there upstate in the mountains. I don't need all high end mods,I just want my car to drive like it did when I bought it. https://www.carparts.com/shock-absor...nroe/ts171123l .. Appreciate you thoughts and input.
By the looks of it, those springs are for the base suspension. You want the sport suspension unless you have a 2004-5 base model automatic? Though to be fair, I didn't think there was a difference.
HI Loki,
OK After hours and hours of searching and even calling Mazda Corporate,. I found the holy grail -- great site which had all of the technical manuals one would need to service an RX 8 properly with all of the factory prescribed specs. https://www.rotaryheads.com/PDF/RX8/
In addition I have attached a few pages regarding the rear suspension which has charts on various ride heights. Not being that knowledgeable on such matters as caster or camber I was unable to determine the proper ride height which is stated in these documents. Ride height varies according the settings I mentioned above so I am still a bit in the dark as to the proper setting I am looking for: that is , Standard Suspension - Factory prescribed ride height for a daily driver. Perhaps you might be able to determine? if not at least you'll have access to all of the manuals! Cheers.
the one thing the Standard suspension (non-Sport) spring theory doesn’t account for is the excessively lower ride height, not to mention that Standard suspension RX8s weren’t known for crashing and banging over potholes, being excessively low wrt ride height, weighing all that much different, or having a different rear shock perch location. If anything I might expect a softer factory spring to be a bit longer than a stiffer version to provide more preload and avoid all that even.
and what you just mentioned is just a very early pre-production issue of the factory service manual. It has a lot of mistakes and inaccuracies. You really need the specific Mazda service manual version for your specific model year and market location RX8 because there are variations over the years and also depending on the intended export market area (jdm, usdm, eudm, etc.)
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Thanks Team RX8 .. I have gone so far as to call Mazda Corporate and i was still not able to find the correct right height. So my POA is to simply buy the Monroe Complete Strut Assembly which states it will raise the car back to its original ride height. I'm at my wit's end here. My dealers mechanic who is supposedly their RX 8 specialist keeps telling me he installed the the last set of shocks and springs correctly, using the other original parts. Yet the problem persists for over 2 1/2 years. I trust the guy as he's been working on my ride for the entire time I've owned the car when I first bought it in 2005. But I know the feel of this car after driving it for 16 years, it' just "ain't right". Not to mention the science behind the huge difference in ride height front to back ( 15 V 13 1/2 ) Prior to installing and the un-installing a set of BIlstein PSS9s a few years ago, the car rode fine. In the past I've driven it over 200 miles with 2 other adults in it with all of our luggage and never had a problem. I've driven it with 3 other adults and a friggin keyboard and small amp in it locally with no problem. As I mentioned before, I do not track the car, I drive it as a daily and when the weather permits it take it up to the mountains for a little canyon carving/"sport" driving here in NYS. Aside from that, I'm not looking for, nor have I ever wanted to mod the car for anything more than better performance under the conditions I drive it: on the street, highway, and back mountain roads. I take excellent care of the car inside and out as best I can and am getting ready to do a full on body/interior reconditioning. I've probably spent double what I paid for it just maintainiing and repairing it!. But before I do that I just want to sort out this persistent *** dragging and body slamming. So if dropping these Monroes will get me back to "normal" I'm all in. I love this car and for all intents and purposes do not see myself ever selling or getting another. ( Until I'm told Im too old to drive any more) . Thanks for your input and advice.
For what its worth maybe this will help someone with the same problem. RE: Sagging rear end wonky ride height, bottoming out etc.
Working with my dealer, Monroe, people here, shitloads of research etc I managed to solve the problem to the point where my car actually rides like it did when I bought it.
1)- Took off the +1 sized tires and went back the original 225/45ZR18 91Y using Conti EXTREMECONTACT DWS 06 PLUS (I've used these for years and they are excellent all seasons)
2) I did in fact buy and had installed the Monroe Complete Strut and Spring assemblies on all four corners as planned. They perform as advertised if not better.
3) My mechanic did a test which we both believe , aside from the new Struts etc was the key to getting the car to ride at the correct height. Before installing the new rubber, he installed the Strut assemblies and lowered the car. It sat almost exactly as it did before. He then installed the new rubber and did the same thing and got the same result. After inspecting the alignment he found the rears in particular were set at a fairly large POSITIVE camber setting which made the car sit lower. He then re-adjusted the camber to a NEGATIVE setting and then lowered the car and voila, the ride height is now just around 15 - a tad higher in the fronts which will settle, even with the slightly higher sidewall due to the original rubber. So it appears that by replacing all of the old hardware AND re-aligning the camber to a more balanced setting for normal road /performance driving did the trick.
NET RESULT. The car looks proper and the ride height is pretty much equal in the back and the front. The ride was astounding. Living in NYC after the winter, the roads leave something to be desired. But I have to admit, driving normally and being careful of the obviously large potholes and bumps the car drove fantastic. It was a bit stiff as it's supposed to be being a sports car, but I had no fear of the *** end dragging or bottoming out, it never did. The overall ride was a joy and although I had to go back to work, I couldn't help but to stay our for another hour joyriding on some of the freeways around town and then back home again.Not before taking to a car wash to have the entire underside of the car power washed. What a feeling to fall back in love again. I feel like I'm driving a brand new car again, and save for the 17 year old body, it pretty much is, what with a re-furbed engine courtesy of Mazda with only 4.5K on it , a new tranny with only 2.7K, and now with the new tires,, and suspension.
So as regards the original issue -- problem sorted. This may not be the right approach for everyone, however never suspecting the camber setting to be the probable culprit for the lower rear might be something for other with the same problem to look into. The other repairs and new stuff was a personal choice. Good luck to all and happy motoring, Catskills here I come!
Glad you got it all sorted after all your efforts. Also a good write up on your trouble shooting.
I don't get how the tyres can change anything though as settings would be the same assuming same diameter, width and profile.
I did opt for a new set of Michelin Pilot Sport4 tyres and they definitely did not change anything with settings. I have my camber and toe settings as i want them, and the car handles like it is on rails. Yet F to R difference persists although not as severe as yours at start.
So not too sure as to how you had a win there. Good result nevertheless. I just went for younger OEM coilovers though.
I intend to install adjustable coilovers at some point to get the ride height i desire which is only a subtle change anyway, along with adjustable damping. I'm not in any rush though as i will need to readjust and align again. At least i know how after doing it once before! Beers.
thank you.I went from 1+ size back down to the original tire size which , being a little narrower than the old ones I had on would actually have a higher sidewall and change the clearance between tire and lower fender lip. However according to my dealer, by re-adjusting the negative camber - it raised the ride height significantly enough so that it now rides at 15" and there is still a good 3 finger clearance between tire and lower fender lip. And again the ride itself is just a joy. Since I'm not racing or tracking, but using as a daily and weekend canyon carving up in the mountains about 2 hours away, it's easy on my *** around town, and still handles great on the twisty turnies and the ups and downs.
As for the tires, I started out with what came on the car Bridgestone Potenza Sports and being in the North East where we do get snow here in city and suburbs but also in the mountains, I had to keeep swapping them out for Blizzaks. After a couple of seasons going back and forth to have the tires switched on the rims, I tossed in the towel and looked for the best All Season Sports I could find came up withe Conti DWS Extreme Contact 06- not as effect in deeper snow as the Blizzaks but anything past 2 inches or more of un-plowed roads and it just couldn't handle it anyway. I find the Contis to be an all around good tire which are excellent on dry , fantastic in the wet, and pretty good in the snow if I happen to either get caught in a snowfall or go out after one. She always goes where I point here regardless of how tight I turn and I've never lost it on a spirited turn ever. The only time the *** end ever kicks out is if I'm going through a turn hit a bump and she gets about a 1/2 second of air under her, but other than that, the car stays flat.
So good on your sorting out your own tire and alignment. IN truth, I'm told the OEM setup are basically non adjustable coil-overs which are set for sport driving, which for the average weekend warrior, they're perfect and can be pushed pretty hard ( I know this anecdotally) I had adjustable coil overs and hated them as I my tetth would chatter when driving around town and drop in height had me constantly scraping the bottom or front or rear when going into my garage which has a steep incline which is cut in half by another slight incline and when leaving gas stations or the light going from curb height back down to road level. Enjoy Pilots and you new OEM setup and happy motoring. Cheers!
In any case, good on you for getting your
I completely agree that going back to stock is often a win in many areas with the RX8. Thats the main reason i did not go adjusable coilovers straight up.
Can i ask which coilovers you had and hated on your car? I will definitely hang onto my OEM jobs just in case it does not work out!
Glad you got it sorted out for use as intended. 😀
I completely agree that going back to stock is often a win in many areas with the RX8. Thats the main reason i did not go adjustable coil overs straight up.
Can i ask which coil overs you had and hated on your car? I will definitely hang onto my OEM jobs just in case it does not work out!
Glad you got it sorted out for use as intended. 😀
Good luck there. I had Bilstein Pss 009 completely adjustable. Automatically lowers the car 1/2 inch. I could never get them to original ride height. The car kept bottoming out ever-time I went inot my garage. No matter what the softest setting i used they still were pretty stiff, too stiff for NYC City street for sure. Maybe for better roads and tracking but for street driving, they were bone jarring.
Since I switched back to the Monroe OEM setup, they are still very firm , the ride height is where it should be and it handles like it did when I first bought. These are essentially nonadjustable coil overs anyways so the effect is the same handling wise. I used to have 1+ size tires on the cr which softened the ride aout a bit but gave more grip, now Im back to original OEM size and although a tad stiffer than the wider tires, I still get great grip and handling and I find since they don't grip as much road they tend to "glide" londer and I actually get better milage. Not saying plus sizing doesn't have its advantages but for a street driver, who does occassional carving on the weekend, OEM wheels and suspension setup are fine.
So unless your local roads are really good and are planing to track it and have have great mechanics who know suspension, I would say leave the original OEM suspension on the car as it was original optimized for sport driving anyway. Otherwise you could be opening yourself up to a whole host of issues and constantly fiddling around to get the ride height correct, the handling correct etc. You have to remember these cars were set up straight out of the crate to be a true sports cars, with 50/50 weight distribution, and handling that was pretty hard to beat even by todays standards. Not to mention that they have true rack and pinion steering which is pretty darn responsive and lets your really feeling the raod giving you the true driving experience. And although they do have power assist steering its not like you could use your pinky on some these new "starship fly by wire sofas" on the road today. I drove it for 8 hours last week and did some pretty spirited driving up in the mountains and I have to admist as good as the power assist is, my arms were still a bit tired as this does provide you with that road feedback and you definitely have to keep your hands on the wheel at all times constantly adjusting and micro adjusting your ride. SO again, a real drivers car good as it gets , right our of the crate. Enjoy your new setup and tires and I hope it all works out for you. . Happy motoring. Cheers
02-06-2022, 05:56 PM
