ArvinC

Hello everyone.

Just wondering what the advantages and disadvantages were in running a staggered wheel/tire combo, ie. narrower front vs. a wider rear.

In the most recent Sport Compact Car mag, they review the JIC Rx-8 and, while they loved the suspension mods, they found the staggered 8.5" 225/40 front x 9.5" 265/35 rear (Volk TE37's 18" with Yokohama Advan A048's) produced understeer. I was wondering why this happened, if staggered set-ups always produce understeer conditions and, lastly, why run a staggered set-up at all?

Thanks for any info!

Arvin

PUR NRG

There are times (like drag racing) when all you care about is rear wheel grip. That's when you want the fattest, grippiest rear tires you can get and could care less about what's on front.

There are other times (like autocross) when you want a neutral handling car that doesn't exhibit oversteer or understeer in turns. If you understand what oversteer and understeer mean and why they happen, the answer to your question should be self evident.

Staggered setups as a general rule produce understeer but that is dependant on the car and suspension.

Why run staggered? Because in the world of import rice bigger is always better. You can usually fit bigger wheels/tires in the rear so following that import rice rule that's what you do. That's also why you see 4" "potato can" exhaust tips hanging off a 2" exhaust pipe.
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Sputnik

The only time it would be useful for handling is on a mid or rear engined car with weight bias to the rear. Like a Porsche 911, Toyota MR2, Ferrari 360, etc.

---jps

Gord96BRG

Ditto to the above - lots of people think it looks good, and that's all the reason they need. Unless you re-engineer the suspension tuning to compensate for the wider wheels/tires on the back (as, for example, BMW does for their sport suspensions that are delivered with a wider rear wheel/tire) by changing the shocks/springs/sway bars, then you will screw up the handling balance towards more understeer. The RX-8, stock, doesn't have enough HP to require wider rear tires, and with the 50/50 weight distribution, doesn't need wider rears for handling purposes.

Regards,
Gordon

adrian-1

One obvious disadvantage is you won't be able to rotate your tires. Even with directional tires you can do front to back, but you wouldn't be able to with a staggered setup. You'll go through tires quicker with a staggered setup.

I agree that they do look better staggered.
Basically, are you more into appearance or handling/ performance.

Kel Rx8

i did it for the look
dont care that much about autocross and such

epitrochoid

the guy who put 19" hiro's on said he balanced the handling back out by adjusting tire pressures. thread is in this forum

Sputnik

Tire pressures aren't going to magically make up for staggered tires. I would higly question his claims.

---jps

AlexCisneros

Agreed, tire pressure alone won't help the characteristics of a staggered set up. Of course there are several variables you need to look at. How staggered they are for example. If you go plus one larger it will have different characteristics of going plus two. Also if you are planning to do other suspension mods you can compensate for a staggered set up as long as you watch out for snap oversteer.

Most people are used to an understeer characteristic since it is what most manufactures dial into a car (it's safer) so if you don't know better the car may perform better to you.

smrx8

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone put 19.5 all around ?

brillo

as someone pointed out, on some cars, such as the 350z the manufacters do it for safety reasons, as it induces understeer.

Sport Compact car had a great writeup on this, basically so the car does get tail happy, somebody dies and Nissan gets sued. In the case of mazda, the TQ doesn't really lend itself to massive oversteer, so I guess they figured it was ok.

cortc

I have been driving and racing cars for over 20 years, if you put the right stagger and keep the relationship/difference in tire width to a minimum you can cancel out the understeer effect with pressure... If you spend the time to do some research on the tires and sizes I am using you will see what I am talking about...

At this point the only negative is no more f/r rotation...

As for those who want to question my claims, why don't you meet me at the track and we can see if my claims are correct...

In the meantime, why don't we all show a little respect...

P.S. There is nothing wrong with a stagger if done correctly... We are not talking 2-3 (225/285) inches in tread width difference here we are talking 1.1" (235/265) difference...

AlexCisneros

I'm not saying staggered is bad, hell I am running staggered, but my claim of pressure alone offsetting it stands because I was talking about a large difference. With a small difference I think some change in pressure will be effective, though not 100% and not by itself. I am a true believer that alignment holds more options than pressure.

cortc

Once again, try it in practice then post...

AlexCisneros

That last post can be perceived as being a bit rude. Let's be civilized, I haven't meant you any disrespect.

Are you saying that changing pressure alone will be 100% effective in changing the driving characteristics from understeer to neutral or oversteer even on a large stagger difference?