Stance and Powertrix coilover opinions
10-23-2013, 04:25 PM
#176
05 RX8 Sold///05 Evo VIII
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Interesting email Charles just sent out. You guy's are so quick to bash any product that isn't ridiculously expensive/ well known.
At least Charles is making it right and standing by his product. Very rare to see these days.
At least Charles is making it right and standing by his product. Very rare to see these days.
10-23-2013, 04:42 PM
#177
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I have always stated that both Stance and Powertrix have handled the issue well. And it was me who notified many Powertrix owners of the issue and they are now in contact with Charles to get the issues resolved. That doesn't make the product any better unfortunately, my "updated" bushings are showing signs of failure again so highly doubt they are updated at all. And since they are likely made at the same place, I am sure that will be no different on the Powertrix.
I am just letting people know whats up, that is all.
I am just letting people know whats up, that is all.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 10-23-2013 at 04:49 PM.
10-23-2013, 04:48 PM
#178
Here you go
Just read through the whole thread, and I may have missed it if posted, but where can I actually buy a set of Stance SS w/ Swift springs included, and for the best deal? I'm looking on Stance's site and they don't seem to have a package deal listed anywhere. Am I missing something? Any help is greatly appreciated, as I plan on ordering these come tax return time.
Go here:
https://www.rx8club.com/group-buy-ce...option-247814/
10-23-2013, 04:57 PM
#179
And yes, they seem to have outstanding customer service, so hopefully they do something and fix this issue.
10-23-2013, 05:09 PM
#180
I have always stated that both Stance and Powertrix have handled the issue well. And it was me who notified many Powertrix owners of the issue and they are now in contact with Charles to get the issues resolved. That doesn't make the product any better unfortunately, my "updated" bushings are showing signs of failure again so highly doubt they are updated at all. And since they are likely made at the same place, I am sure that will be no different on the Powertrix.
I am just letting people know whats up, that is all.
I am just letting people know whats up, that is all.
Further your accusation that we knew about the issue and did not offer any type of recall is completely FALSE. As most of our customers already know we have always stood behind our products and as soon as we were notified, we rectified the issue immediately by proactively contacting our customers and by providing the proper replacements quickly as possible to any and all that had the issue regardless of whether or not they were second hand purchased or acquired brand new.
If your bushings (Not POWERTRIX) are showing signs or wear already then you were given the same quality bushings as the originals you received (Also Not the same as POWERTRIX)
With our product, we know exactly what the issue was with our mounts and have rectified it as noted in our previous post and will not be a repeat issue.
Our replacement units are of the correctly formulated mold that we have been using for over 10 years. This is was isolated indecent where as the mold process was not correct (during this time period) and that we have rectified it by making sure the molding process was done correctly.
Your assessment and comparison of our product is unfair as we have many coilovers on cars since 2002 with the same style rubber bushings as we started out as a Nissan 300zx twin turbo specialist in 1999 and have since expanded our line of coilovers.
There are not too many coilover companies that have 10 year old + units still going strong.
And I will follow up with further info with a detail post.
Last edited by Charles@POWERTRIX; 10-23-2013 at 05:57 PM.
10-23-2013, 08:33 PM
#183
weeeeeeeeee
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Charles thank you for the above and beyond handling of this. I truly appreciate your high level of accountability throughout this matter. I sincerely apologize for any grief anything i may have posted has caused you. Your straight talk approach and reaching out to me proactively further reinforces your commitment to your product.
I would not hesitate to do business with you again.
Shell
I would not hesitate to do business with you again.
Shell
10-24-2013, 12:32 AM
#184
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
In all fairness, I'd like to make this perfectly clear that your comments are purely speculation as you do not own our product and have no experience with our replacement mounts for the RX8.
Further your accusation that we knew about the issue and did not offer any type of recall is completely FALSE. As most of our customers already know we have always stood behind our products and as soon as we were notified, we rectified the issue immediately by proactively contacting our customers and by providing the proper replacements quickly as possible to any and all that had the issue regardless of whether or not they were second hand purchased or acquired brand new.
If your bushings (Not POWERTRIX) are showing signs or wear already then you were given the same quality bushings as the originals you received (Also Not the same as POWERTRIX)
With our product, we know exactly what the issue was with our mounts and have rectified it as noted in our previous post and will not be a repeat issue.
Our replacement units are of the correctly formulated mold that we have been using for over 10 years. This is was isolated indecent where as the mold process was not correct (during this time period) and that we have rectified it by making sure the molding process was done correctly.
Your assessment and comparison of our product is unfair as we have many coilovers on cars since 2002 with the same style rubber bushings as we started out as a Nissan 300zx twin turbo specialist in 1999 and have since expanded our line of coilovers.
There are not too many coilover companies that have 10 year old + units still going strong.
And I will follow up with further info with a detail post.
Further your accusation that we knew about the issue and did not offer any type of recall is completely FALSE. As most of our customers already know we have always stood behind our products and as soon as we were notified, we rectified the issue immediately by proactively contacting our customers and by providing the proper replacements quickly as possible to any and all that had the issue regardless of whether or not they were second hand purchased or acquired brand new.
If your bushings (Not POWERTRIX) are showing signs or wear already then you were given the same quality bushings as the originals you received (Also Not the same as POWERTRIX)
With our product, we know exactly what the issue was with our mounts and have rectified it as noted in our previous post and will not be a repeat issue.
Our replacement units are of the correctly formulated mold that we have been using for over 10 years. This is was isolated indecent where as the mold process was not correct (during this time period) and that we have rectified it by making sure the molding process was done correctly.
Your assessment and comparison of our product is unfair as we have many coilovers on cars since 2002 with the same style rubber bushings as we started out as a Nissan 300zx twin turbo specialist in 1999 and have since expanded our line of coilovers.
There are not too many coilover companies that have 10 year old + units still going strong.
And I will follow up with further info with a detail post.
As for the recalls, well I never heard of any of my friends who owned these getting an email about this issue before hand. They are in communication with you now though. It is what it is, and I commend you for how you are handling the situation. I mean no disrespect and I am glad you are communicating and handling the issue the way you are.
But, I still think people need to be aware of the issue because many were not aware of it until recently, and it definitely could be a serious safety concern. In one of my friends cases, he was only a shred of rubber away from having full separation from the bushing sleeve. And for the other two, they never would have checked and found that their bushings were shot if I had not brought up the issue here locally.
As for the new Powertrix specific bushings, well we shall see how they hold up over time on my friends RX-8's. I will definitely be checking on them.
Happy Rotoring.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 10-24-2013 at 12:35 AM.
10-24-2013, 07:52 AM
#185
Might just make sense for those who are serious about their suspension to contact a 3rd party and get a set of press fit bushings. I,e, cut out the oem stance/ptrix bushings and press in some Energy suspension bushings.
FWIW, I'm on year 2 going on year 3 on my "new" stance lower mounts after my first ones started cracking, and I am not showing any signs of wear. This coming from 2 seasons of autocross.
FWIW, I'm on year 2 going on year 3 on my "new" stance lower mounts after my first ones started cracking, and I am not showing any signs of wear. This coming from 2 seasons of autocross.
10-24-2013, 08:03 AM
#186
05 RX8 Sold///05 Evo VIII
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Well said Charles.
I'm just voicing my spectators view of intentionally (or unintentionally) trying to steer people away from a reputable vendor who stands by his product.
He's gone out of his way to go above and beyond without asking for any cost from the customer.
He's sent out emails to every owner or gotten in contact with them.
He's publicly announced the failure and addressed the issue.
What more do you want from a company? Brand NEW coilovers?
Like Charles said. There's so much speculation that since the bushings failed the first time - they will sub-sequentially fail every time after that albeit redesigned. A bit foolish thinking.
I'm just voicing my spectators view of intentionally (or unintentionally) trying to steer people away from a reputable vendor who stands by his product.
He's gone out of his way to go above and beyond without asking for any cost from the customer.
He's sent out emails to every owner or gotten in contact with them.
He's publicly announced the failure and addressed the issue.
What more do you want from a company? Brand NEW coilovers?
Like Charles said. There's so much speculation that since the bushings failed the first time - they will sub-sequentially fail every time after that albeit redesigned. A bit foolish thinking.
Last edited by viprez586; 10-24-2013 at 08:05 AM.
10-24-2013, 10:11 AM
#187
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Thread Starter
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Yeah well this thread is about opinions, Good and Bad. I for one was very disappointed that I had to pull the rear coilovers and replace the bushings after less than few thousand miles and I know a couple of Powertrix owners that felt the same way. Two of which who sold their setups. And for me doing the work is no biggie. But for someone who is paying to have this done it is a significant inconvenience.
Now the fact that Stance and Powwertrix handled the matter properly is great, and I don't expect them to do anything beyond what they are doing but it doesn't change the fact that the problem is a somewhat significant one and I am sure new potential buyers are glad to know it exists so that they can take that into consideration when purchasing.
Now the fact that Stance and Powwertrix handled the matter properly is great, and I don't expect them to do anything beyond what they are doing but it doesn't change the fact that the problem is a somewhat significant one and I am sure new potential buyers are glad to know it exists so that they can take that into consideration when purchasing.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 10-24-2013 at 10:14 AM.
10-24-2013, 01:10 PM
#188
In Reply to 9krpmrx8:
In Reply to 9krpmrx8:
I think you are missing the point but that is understandable since this is not your business, livelihood and passion being questioned. Here at POWERTRIX we are very proud of what we do and put our heart and soul into our products, service and customer support.
The fact that you have experienced an issue with another company over a year ago and that their replacements are failing again; it is understandable that you are not happy and bitter. But including us into your bad experience with another company and making accusations towards ours is unjust.
Therefore I’m sure you understand why we don’t appreciate the insinuations and grouping us with another companies problem however similar, and repetitive attempts at dissuading future customers from our product no matter how much you want to spin it on how you are trying to be informative to the community of the “issue”.
Your opinion is unfair and I would not doubt the fact that those friends that have sold there Powertrix coilovers did so with some influence based on this thread.
We thank you for helping bring the defect to our attention however making FALSE accusations that we did not do anything about it is wrong. You added us to this thread on 08-12-13 and we did not find out about the defect until you decided to post up in our group buy advertisement thread which is the same day we contacted our customers. Unfortunately you and/or no one else that could have contacted us so we could have found the discrepancy with our normal production and could have been manufacturing the correct durameter bushings sooner. And for this we wish the replacement parts could have been ready at an earlier date. I would think if you wanted to help the community, you could have been a bit more proactive than waiting and then contacting us directly instead of posting in our advertisement thread. Isn't that what we are here for, to help the RX8 community?
An analogy as if we are to go based on your ideology and opinion in this matter in relation to our beloved RX8 due to its various TSBs and Recalls, that you would believe that is it an inferior vehicle however I do not see you on the forum board saying “Why would you buy (an RX8) after reading this whole thread?” post #160.
And then to continue to harp on those TSBs and Recalls as the reason not to buy after they have been addressed and rectified definitely would unfairly discourage those interested in owning an RX8. For that matter what company in any industry has never had something they have needed to fix or improve on?
Grouping our product with the likes of what we would consider not on the same tier level as our product is solely based on your opinion and it is done so without proper research and testing unless you have in depth experience with said products and ours with REAL data to support it. And if you don’t, then it is an unfair assumption for whatever your reasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the rest of the unbiased community of rx8club, here are the FACTS:
Due to assumed bad reputation spawned by adding Powertrix this post and we feel it is an unfair opinion by one person that our product is an entry level component with bushings that “will” fail in a year. This is absolutely incorrect as the current bushing failure is isolated incident due to a molding process.
We here at POWERTRIX have offered excellent quality coilovers since 2002 with many customers still running their coilovers as of today with the same style rubber lower mounts.
They are very capable performers both on the street and for full track, auto crossing and road racing with over 12 years of use and experience.
Unfortunately we had a run of rubber moldings with the RX8 lower mounts that were not up to standard due to an improper mixture during the molding process. (This is an isolated incident spanning our last 2 production runs.) Hence the reason for the replacements and will not be a repeat issue.
POWERTRIX coilovers feature high end components such as dampers/shocks and pillow ball mounts that have for the most part proven to last over 12 years.
Dampers/shocks are THE most important component of any coilover system.
Anyone can make mounts to fit any car and produce oil filled tubes with pistons that go up and down. This does not mean the will perform properly for your car.
At POWERTRIX we take in several different attributes to the particular car we are building a coilover system for: Weight, Weight distribution, usable rebound and compression stroke of the suspension system, etc.
I think you are missing the point but that is understandable since this is not your business, livelihood and passion being questioned. Here at POWERTRIX we are very proud of what we do and put our heart and soul into our products, service and customer support.
The fact that you have experienced an issue with another company over a year ago and that their replacements are failing again; it is understandable that you are not happy and bitter. But including us into your bad experience with another company and making accusations towards ours is unjust.
Therefore I’m sure you understand why we don’t appreciate the insinuations and grouping us with another companies problem however similar, and repetitive attempts at dissuading future customers from our product no matter how much you want to spin it on how you are trying to be informative to the community of the “issue”.
Your opinion is unfair and I would not doubt the fact that those friends that have sold there Powertrix coilovers did so with some influence based on this thread.
We thank you for helping bring the defect to our attention however making FALSE accusations that we did not do anything about it is wrong. You added us to this thread on 08-12-13 and we did not find out about the defect until you decided to post up in our group buy advertisement thread which is the same day we contacted our customers. Unfortunately you and/or no one else that could have contacted us so we could have found the discrepancy with our normal production and could have been manufacturing the correct durameter bushings sooner. And for this we wish the replacement parts could have been ready at an earlier date. I would think if you wanted to help the community, you could have been a bit more proactive than waiting and then contacting us directly instead of posting in our advertisement thread. Isn't that what we are here for, to help the RX8 community?
An analogy as if we are to go based on your ideology and opinion in this matter in relation to our beloved RX8 due to its various TSBs and Recalls, that you would believe that is it an inferior vehicle however I do not see you on the forum board saying “Why would you buy (an RX8) after reading this whole thread?” post #160.
And then to continue to harp on those TSBs and Recalls as the reason not to buy after they have been addressed and rectified definitely would unfairly discourage those interested in owning an RX8. For that matter what company in any industry has never had something they have needed to fix or improve on?
Grouping our product with the likes of what we would consider not on the same tier level as our product is solely based on your opinion and it is done so without proper research and testing unless you have in depth experience with said products and ours with REAL data to support it. And if you don’t, then it is an unfair assumption for whatever your reasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For the rest of the unbiased community of rx8club, here are the FACTS:
Due to assumed bad reputation spawned by adding Powertrix this post and we feel it is an unfair opinion by one person that our product is an entry level component with bushings that “will” fail in a year. This is absolutely incorrect as the current bushing failure is isolated incident due to a molding process.
We here at POWERTRIX have offered excellent quality coilovers since 2002 with many customers still running their coilovers as of today with the same style rubber lower mounts.
They are very capable performers both on the street and for full track, auto crossing and road racing with over 12 years of use and experience.
Unfortunately we had a run of rubber moldings with the RX8 lower mounts that were not up to standard due to an improper mixture during the molding process. (This is an isolated incident spanning our last 2 production runs.) Hence the reason for the replacements and will not be a repeat issue.
POWERTRIX coilovers feature high end components such as dampers/shocks and pillow ball mounts that have for the most part proven to last over 12 years.
Dampers/shocks are THE most important component of any coilover system.
Anyone can make mounts to fit any car and produce oil filled tubes with pistons that go up and down. This does not mean the will perform properly for your car.
At POWERTRIX we take in several different attributes to the particular car we are building a coilover system for: Weight, Weight distribution, usable rebound and compression stroke of the suspension system, etc.
Performance-wise, we are happy to compare our dampers/shocks vs. the likes and quality of OHLINs dampers/shocks. (See below shock dyno comparison)
In viewing the below shock dyno, you will notice the similarities of the curves however what stands out the most is how our dampers have a larger range of adjustments allowing more stiffer performance oriented settings than the other damper. This shock dyno was performed by a third party non-biased tester.
We would like to provide this correct information for potential customers so they can make and educated choice on purchasing and to ensure our current customers both original and acquired second hand that your purchase of POWERTRIX Coilovers has been an excellent choice and to reinsure your confidence and trust with your product and POWERTRIX as a company in whole.
In viewing the below shock dyno, you will notice the similarities of the curves however what stands out the most is how our dampers have a larger range of adjustments allowing more stiffer performance oriented settings than the other damper. This shock dyno was performed by a third party non-biased tester.
We would like to provide this correct information for potential customers so they can make and educated choice on purchasing and to ensure our current customers both original and acquired second hand that your purchase of POWERTRIX Coilovers has been an excellent choice and to reinsure your confidence and trust with your product and POWERTRIX as a company in whole.
Last edited by Charles@POWERTRIX; 10-30-2013 at 08:57 PM.
10-24-2013, 03:59 PM
#191
Nice marketing material but each shock would need to be dynoed individually for those graphs to mean anything at all.
10-24-2013, 06:57 PM
#192
Anyone having a clunking noise from their rear Stance coilovers?? I'm getting one specifically from the rear right at low speeds over minor bumps. At first I thought, maybe my Endlinks so I removed both rear endlinks and rear sway bar to test.. Still had the clunk more noticeable in the right side.
I pulled both rear coilovers and inspected. I always keep spring preload tight enough for the spring to have no play. But just loose enough for it to spin slightly by hand and the bushings in the lower mounts looked fine. So I took them apart and greased the bumpstops and bearings. I noticed on the rear the strut mount has 2 plates? IIRC,.. and their held together by allen key bolts. I tightened both top hats at the allen key bolts but the right side seemed to be making the noise (the plates have some play,and are making contact). Put em back in all greased up along with my endlinks and sway bar but the clunk is persistent and im positive its the top mount.
Anyone else having this problem I'm thinking of pulling the rears again and taking apart the 2 plates at the top hat and using silicone to form a gasket in between to stop any noise from contact. Would this be a good idea? Anyones else have this problem and come up with a fix? Or do i need a new top mount from Stance?
I pulled both rear coilovers and inspected. I always keep spring preload tight enough for the spring to have no play. But just loose enough for it to spin slightly by hand and the bushings in the lower mounts looked fine. So I took them apart and greased the bumpstops and bearings. I noticed on the rear the strut mount has 2 plates? IIRC,.. and their held together by allen key bolts. I tightened both top hats at the allen key bolts but the right side seemed to be making the noise (the plates have some play,and are making contact). Put em back in all greased up along with my endlinks and sway bar but the clunk is persistent and im positive its the top mount.
Anyone else having this problem I'm thinking of pulling the rears again and taking apart the 2 plates at the top hat and using silicone to form a gasket in between to stop any noise from contact. Would this be a good idea? Anyones else have this problem and come up with a fix? Or do i need a new top mount from Stance?
10-24-2013, 10:10 PM
#195
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Hmmm. You will probably have to pull it and inspect it. Or try and put the on stands and use a floor jack to jack up the tire and see if you can re-create the noise. And the springs should have just enough preload to where you can barely spin the spring.
10-24-2013, 10:20 PM
#197
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
It should be fairly obvious when you find it. If you end up thinking it is the springs let me know, I have a couple of sets of 200MM Stance springs in different rates. Don't trust the engravings, measure them if you can. Be careful testing it.
10-29-2013, 04:18 PM
#198
So I'm 96% sure the clunk was from the top mount. I put the rear on stands and jacked up the right wheel trying to re-create the noise and wasn't getting anything. I pulled the right coilover and took it apart. The top mount is 2 piece held together with 4 Allen key bolts. I ran a bead of clear silicone around the point where the 2 plates contact to hold together the top mount, and let it dry for about 15min.
The Installed it back in and let it sit for about an hour. Took the 8 for a test drive and the clunk was pretty much non-existent. It was there once in a while, but very faint and not noticeable.. unless the radio is off and you're looking for it. Much more tolerable than before.
I think I'll pull both rears and use some kind of gasket material (cork or rubber) and cut a gasket to put in between the plates to stop contact completely and eliminate noise, as preventative maintenance.
The Installed it back in and let it sit for about an hour. Took the 8 for a test drive and the clunk was pretty much non-existent. It was there once in a while, but very faint and not noticeable.. unless the radio is off and you're looking for it. Much more tolerable than before.
I think I'll pull both rears and use some kind of gasket material (cork or rubber) and cut a gasket to put in between the plates to stop contact completely and eliminate noise, as preventative maintenance.
