Types of coilovers?
10-21-2010, 06:48 PM
#27
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Although only an option on a relatively few coilovers, I have found the ability to electronically control the setting to be of great value, esp on track where tracks and conditions can be so very unique and different. Being able to try different setting on-the-fly as I go winging it around a track to fine-tune under/overseer and trail braking response has been a great advantage to both getting good results from my driving, but also learning what effects the setting actually have in the real world. I now have a good idea what to adjust for differing tracks/weather/how I'm feeling.
Obviously 'cheap' coilovers don't have this option, but for the ones that do, this is a feature you may want to consider. If you think about it...all the settings, all the quality, all the adjustments 2-way or 32 steps or monotube or whatever are really for naught if they are simply set once or twice and left that way for lack of any real feeling as to what else is possible. Some manual designs are a PITA to adjust and all others you have to stop and be out of the car. As a result you can almost guarantee you'll never become intimately familiar with what the adjustments actually do to your car's handling when you're driving the car. You and your driving are just too removed from the actual adjustment process.
So that's one difference that makes a real difference between cheap and expensive and expensive w/electronic adjustment. Hope that adds something for you.
Obviously 'cheap' coilovers don't have this option, but for the ones that do, this is a feature you may want to consider. If you think about it...all the settings, all the quality, all the adjustments 2-way or 32 steps or monotube or whatever are really for naught if they are simply set once or twice and left that way for lack of any real feeling as to what else is possible. Some manual designs are a PITA to adjust and all others you have to stop and be out of the car. As a result you can almost guarantee you'll never become intimately familiar with what the adjustments actually do to your car's handling when you're driving the car. You and your driving are just too removed from the actual adjustment process.
So that's one difference that makes a real difference between cheap and expensive and expensive w/electronic adjustment. Hope that adds something for you.
10-21-2010, 07:59 PM
#31
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Although only an option on a relatively few coilovers, I have found the ability to electronically control the setting to be of great value, esp on track where tracks and conditions can be so very unique and different. Being able to try different setting on-the-fly as I go winging it around a track to fine-tune under/overseer and trail braking response has been a great advantage to both getting good results from my driving, but also learning what effects the setting actually have in the real world. I now have a good idea what to adjust for differing tracks/weather/how I'm feeling.
Obviously 'cheap' coilovers don't have this option, but for the ones that do, this is a feature you may want to consider. If you think about it...all the settings, all the quality, all the adjustments 2-way or 32 steps or monotube or whatever are really for naught if they are simply set once or twice and left that way for lack of any real feeling as to what else is possible. Some manual designs are a PITA to adjust and all others you have to stop and be out of the car. As a result you can almost guarantee you'll never become intimately familiar with what the adjustments actually do to your car's handling when you're driving the car. You and your driving are just too removed from the actual adjustment process.
So that's one difference that makes a real difference between cheap and expensive and expensive w/electronic adjustment. Hope that adds something for you.
Obviously 'cheap' coilovers don't have this option, but for the ones that do, this is a feature you may want to consider. If you think about it...all the settings, all the quality, all the adjustments 2-way or 32 steps or monotube or whatever are really for naught if they are simply set once or twice and left that way for lack of any real feeling as to what else is possible. Some manual designs are a PITA to adjust and all others you have to stop and be out of the car. As a result you can almost guarantee you'll never become intimately familiar with what the adjustments actually do to your car's handling when you're driving the car. You and your driving are just too removed from the actual adjustment process.
So that's one difference that makes a real difference between cheap and expensive and expensive w/electronic adjustment. Hope that adds something for you.
I was hoping you would see this and give us your honest opinion. I know you have some valuable (although probably not nice
) input on the subject. Let's have it.
10-21-2010, 08:21 PM
#32
Registered
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Obviously 'cheap' coilovers don't have this option, but for the ones that do, this is a feature you may want to consider. If you think about it...all the settings, all the quality, all the adjustments 2-way or 32 steps or monotube or whatever are really for naught if they are simply set once or twice and left that way for lack of any real feeling as to what else is possible. Some manual designs are a PITA to adjust and all others you have to stop and be out of the car. As a result you can almost guarantee you'll never become intimately familiar with what the adjustments actually do to your car's handling when you're driving the car. You and your driving are just too removed from the actual adjustment process.
10-25-2010, 10:45 PM
#35
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Okay I decided to run some OEM replacement mono tube KYB shocks I got on a hook up on a new set of Tein S techs I got a hold of in trade. I will run these until I can get a set of good coilovers. I don't plan on getting rid of the car so I figure getting a good set that is serviceable is the smart move. But in the meantime I needed shocks so we will see how these KYB's compare to the stock Tokico's.
At least they are JDM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/5116185487/
DSC_0013 by 9krpmrx8, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/5116185541/
DSC_0015 by 9krpmrx8, on Flickr
At least they are JDM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/5116185487/
DSC_0013 by 9krpmrx8, on Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/5116185541/
DSC_0015 by 9krpmrx8, on Flickr
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 10-25-2010 at 11:23 PM.
10-26-2010, 08:03 AM
#36
Momentum Keeps Me Going
Moreover - and as is typical of an HPDE participant - I'm alone at an event, no pit crew, no helpers....and so the easier and quicker something is to do - the more likely that it will be used and benefit - is highly in its favor. It'd certainly be nice to have a crew to jump right in and make my tuning wishes happen and adjust things while I'm off taking a ****, or getting a drink - but it's all me, all the time - I'm the point man, mechanic, driver, and pit crew in one.
-------
Still, you are wondering how beneficial can it really be? My car setup is basicaly neutral in the 1st place. But the F/R coilover adjustment very obviously changes this basic setup on track. So imagine a couple of typical track day senarios as examples...
....it's in the morning before the 1st session - I make judgement based on experience and weather, track conditions (hot/cold/slippery/rain etc.), and adjust tire pressure & coilovers front to rear setting. With the Cusco there's only setting 1-5, soft to hard. Couldn't be easier, push a button. In 1st session, I feel how the car is handling, adjust coilovers to get the exact right response I want if I need to. After the session, I also might adjust tire pressure. Then the day continues and ...
...another way I play the settings is adjust for how I'm feeling. Let's say it's a new track, or I haven't been there for a while, or I want to play it safe and comfortable for a bit in the AM. I would adjust for understeer (looser, more planted rear setting compared to front) until I get 'in the grove' and feel comfortable being in neutral or full attack oversteer mode, notching up the setting as I want. Or maybe I want to work on my trailbraking that day, but start out safely, things like that.
...a third is the progression of soft to hard during the day. Start at 1-1 F/R or 2-2 F/R and this gives softer, more gradual suspension response overall. As the day goes on I move towards a sharper response with the end result of a 4-5 or a 5-5 (full stiff) where the car is very edgy, quick to respond and all chassis inputs take a quick set.
It really is a great driver aid.
Last edited by Spin9k; 10-26-2010 at 08:06 AM.
10-26-2010, 08:32 AM
#37
I'll add a little about coilovers. Let's not forget about the company's customer service. JIC Majic's Customer Service really sucks, and to point out the relevance to the thread, I have been waiting forever to get them back. I am on stock set-up right now. I love my JIC's but when they are not on my car they SUCK!
Mine are not computer adjusted and I'm not sure if I would benefit from such a device.
Mine are not computer adjusted and I'm not sure if I would benefit from such a device.
11-04-2010, 04:51 PM
#38
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
Okay, I have still been reading this stuff
Good site if you feel like reading
Interesting perspective. PSS9's may not be what they are hyped up to be.
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
Good site if you feel like reading
Interesting perspective. PSS9's may not be what they are hyped up to be.http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html
11-05-2010, 12:33 AM
#40
not in that regard and I regardless of how poopy I drive don't mistake it for teh setup, seems like you need to finish up that crow pie on your plate ...
ps: KYB = as craptastic as it gets ... just been ignoring those other BS threads you been posting that ignorance in, same for any shock with e-control. E-control = needle valve, the worst of the worst for adjustable shocks. Stiffer vs velocity control is a universe apart.
ps: KYB = as craptastic as it gets ... just been ignoring those other BS threads you been posting that ignorance in, same for any shock with e-control. E-control = needle valve, the worst of the worst for adjustable shocks. Stiffer vs velocity control is a universe apart.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 11-05-2010 at 12:37 AM.
11-05-2010, 02:41 AM
#43
Momentum Keeps Me Going
not in that regard and I regardless of how poopy I drive don't mistake it for teh setup, seems like you need to finish up that crow pie on your plate ...
ps: KYB = as craptastic as it gets ... just been ignoring those other BS threads you been posting that ignorance in, same for any shock with e-control. E-control = needle valve, the worst of the worst for adjustable shocks. Stiffer vs velocity control is a universe apart.
ps: KYB = as craptastic as it gets ... just been ignoring those other BS threads you been posting that ignorance in, same for any shock with e-control. E-control = needle valve, the worst of the worst for adjustable shocks. Stiffer vs velocity control is a universe apart.
At least ...
...the Cusco Zero-2E w/E-Con is the same shock as the Zero-2E without E-Con. The E-Con option is simply an external stepper motor placed over the adjustment control you would adjust by hand when you buy the unit wo/E-Con. Accordingly, there is no needle valve used or at least they don't call it that...
Last edited by Spin9k; 11-05-2010 at 02:44 AM.
11-05-2010, 06:19 AM
#45
Registered
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Another difference is the external tube as opposed to monotube. This allows you to adjust the damping/compression rates and rebound separate from eachother by adjusting gas pressure. With monotube, you cannot really adjust rebound, but by turning the adjustment line you are changing the damping setting by compressing the air inside of the montotube. Although this adjusts the dampening rate, it also adjusts rebound. 2way allows you to adjust each a bit more freely by having a separate reservoir.
Sorry, but this, and the paragraph following it, are completely untrue. And you don't take gas in or out of the reserviour to control the amount of compression and rebound, the gas is there for cavitation control vs hysterisis. Might have been said already, I've only skim-read the topic. I'll go through it fully later.
As Team says, straight tapered needle valves are **** for adjustment regardless of whether they're electronic or manually adjusted. They don't adjust linearly and they're not consistant either, they tend to have different damping for a single setting depending on whether you've turned them down or up. Parabolic needles are linear but still inconsistant, a barrel type orifice is better where every setting goes through a seperate, fixed sized hole. Preferably with check valves or through another shim stack for altering the very-low speed control curves at <0.5inch/s
And having to stiffen the dampers as the track day goes on just points to fading dampers and/or poor consistancy on the adjustment/low speed circuit internally.
As your driving gets better you should be heading towards softer settings provided the dampers are consistant.
Last edited by PhillipM; 11-05-2010 at 06:31 AM.
11-05-2010, 07:16 AM
#46
Momentum Keeps Me Going
11-05-2010, 09:26 AM
#47
SARX Legend
Thread Starter
iTrader: (46)
ps: KYB = as craptastic as it gets ... just been ignoring those other BS threads you been posting that ignorance in, same for any shock with e-control. E-control = needle valve, the worst of the worst for adjustable shocks. Stiffer vs velocity control is a universe apart.
Sorry, but this, and the paragraph following it, are completely untrue. And you don't take gas in or out of the reserviour to control the amount of compression and rebound, the gas is there for cavitation control vs hysterisis. Might have been said already, I've only skim-read the topic. I'll go through it fully later.
As Team says, straight tapered needle valves are **** for adjustment regardless of whether they're electronic or manually adjusted. They don't adjust linearly and they're not consistant either, they tend to have different damping for a single setting depending on whether you've turned them down or up. Parabolic needles are linear but still inconsistant, a barrel type orifice is better where every setting goes through a seperate, fixed sized hole. Preferably with check valves or through another shim stack for altering the very-low speed control curves at <0.5inch/s
And having to stiffen the dampers as the track day goes on just points to fading dampers and/or poor consistancy on the adjustment/low speed circuit internally.
As your driving gets better you should be heading towards softer settings provided the dampers are consistant.
As Team says, straight tapered needle valves are **** for adjustment regardless of whether they're electronic or manually adjusted. They don't adjust linearly and they're not consistant either, they tend to have different damping for a single setting depending on whether you've turned them down or up. Parabolic needles are linear but still inconsistant, a barrel type orifice is better where every setting goes through a seperate, fixed sized hole. Preferably with check valves or through another shim stack for altering the very-low speed control curves at <0.5inch/s
And having to stiffen the dampers as the track day goes on just points to fading dampers and/or poor consistancy on the adjustment/low speed circuit internally.
As your driving gets better you should be heading towards softer settings provided the dampers are consistant.
Thanks Phillip.
11-06-2010, 06:24 PM
#50
this website is full of useful information (http://www.motoiq.com) also dave coleman writes for them now. hope that helps...