ZumnRx8

epikeddie

I currently run the JIC FLT-TAR coilovers on my car. It had a great monotube design and beefy pillow ball mounts. Also, I didn't particularly like any of the twin tube designs from Tein. I ran a set of Flex on my Miata and S2000 at one time and they didn't offer a noticeable difference through the adjustments.

This kit wasn't perfect though. I bought these and they came with 10kg (front) and 7kg (rear) springs and it felt like the car was skipping through bumpy corners. I changed out those springs with some 9kg (front) and 6kg (rear) from Swift Springs and it's been a beautiful street/track/canyon setup.

I wouldn't say these are anywhere near the level of full competition pieces like JRZ, Moton, Penske, and Ohlins. However, they give you a more confident feeling ride when you attack the corners.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

^ I had the same problem with JICs on my Miata - too high spring rates causing problems on street tires. Good to hear that a simple spring swap can help them on the RX-8.

But, I will reiterate - the KWs with their as-supplied spring rates have a fantastic ride/handling qotient. Damping internals are important, and, unforunately, hard to quantify in terms of making a decision as a consumer.

renesisking

iTrader: (1)

You guys are the first i've ever heard that jdm brands aren't as good as other claim they are. Would it just be better if someone just got shocks, springs, and seperate pillowball mounts instead of buying a full coilover set instead? buy buying seperate would it still have the same functionality of a tein flex or jic's for example?

Tsar

What do you think of the Bilstein B12 ?

I am always looking for comfort here in france, i actually run stock Tokico's + Tein H Tech springs and i am allright with it cause still very comfortable but when they will die i would appreciate get a bit more sharper control of the car since i do 3 tracks days a year and i am a very agressive driver on track , and i am not the type of guys losing time on setups, i want a "plug and play" suspension with nothing more than ride height if available (not available on the B12)

Would those Bilstein B12 do the job correctly instead of going on B14 or B16 PSS9 ?

Thanks for your answers if you knew these products.

epikeddie

I'm going to have to put my input on this one. Honestly, I've been modifying all of my cars since 2000. I only got my first taste of the track in 2005. I've probably been through numerous suspension pieces on my S2000, Porsche 951 (944 Turbo), Miata, and now my RX8. I've also probably wasted more money than I had to. Also, I probably only needed true coilovers for 1 of those years when I added race rubber and the car was much quicker.

For most people, shocks and springs will suffice for what they're planning to do with them. Hell, I frequented local canyons ever since I could even start driving and the shock / spring combo will work probably better than most run-of-the-mill OTS coilovers. Coilovers are worthless unless you know how to use their features. I kept lying to myself about this for years!

It was in 2005 (before a track event) I took my car to West End Alignment (a known race alignment shop in Southern California) for race alignment and corner balancing/weighting. I never knew that my own coilovers were capable of performing so well since I never felt that it was going to make that much of a difference. I was also highly inexperienced with suspension tuning in general. I didn't pick one of these up until last year with my Miata: http://www.advancedracing.com/pic.ph...title=products
So I conclude that coilovers are only good for what you can tune in. Piecing coilovers is even more of a daunting task. They have R&D teams that do this at most of the major manufacturers.

Japanese coilovers are made in the same fashion as their German, Australian, and US counterparts. So I don't believe in the whole name = more money factor. I chose JICs for my application simply because I liked them in my Miata and I know someone that works out of their Southern California office that gave me a killer deal on them.

Pillowball mounts aren't a must. They're usually options for most of the kits out there. If you want a truly dialed-in setup, you can choose to source all of your parts and build your own.

For my street/track application, the JIC TAR work out just great. They're a compromise between the soft OEM suspension and fully prepared track suspension i.e. custom spring rates, custom anti-sway bars, custom bushings, custom-valved dampers, custom length bump stops, and the list goes on.

I quickly found out that I am no suspension expert and I had absolutely no idea when it comes to what works with what. I don't have access to a shock dyno and can go with what I know and what I heard. Building your own custom suspension and to make it actually work seamlessly can get rather expensive.

Option for option.....custom-built setups are much more pricey. This guy was fairly popular among the Miata crowd: http://fatcatmotorsports.com/

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Overall I can't argue with what you say above, and I completly agree with your comments about custom setups.

However, I do take issue with this:

While all modern dampers operate under the same physical principals, design details matter, and execution matters. The nature of the damping actions, consistency shock to shock, and within a given shock (i.e., the magnitude of each step in the adjustor) all are affected by the quality of the internals and the nature of the design. Also, there are considerations about the adjustor itself – some JDM systems seem to target the consumer mindset that each click should produce a substantial change that is easy to feel on the street, which usually results in a huge damping range. But somebody who is trying to finesse the setup for track days or autocross appreciates smaller increments so they can get that “just right” handling. The result of such an approach is usually a narrower adjustment range from full soft to full stiff, but that’s fine as long as the middle range is centered on critical damping. But it can be hard for a newb to appreciate this, so some companies set there shocks up with unnecessarily large damping ranges that make it hard to fine tune the setup, which is of course the goal (or should be) of an adjustable damper.

Then there is the quality of the spring itself. Springs can vary quite a bit, both from spring to spring and even within the operating range of the spring itself. Experienced racers will tell you this matters – take a look at the Swift spring website for more details.

How much of this matters on the street? That is a personal choice, of course.

Now, do all JDM products suffer from such ills? I’m sure the answer is no. I think a big part of the anti-JDM stance so common amongst racers is historically based. I think the JDM companies have upped their game over the years, and paying more $$$ for Euro stuff doesn’t guarantee perfection. I also think some of the prejudice is due to the drifting vs. road racing schism. To be fair, it’s not clear to me that drifting and road racing and/or autocross require different valving, and it’s one of the reasons I am a little skeptical about JDM coilovers for autocross work.

Others know much more about this than I, but the above is some of what I have learned since I have been tinkering (about 15 years).

[edit] I should point our that some really good stuff does come from Japan, such as the aforementioned Swift springs, and Ohlins dampers. But, this stuff costs the same or more than premium Euro stuff.