You may be right on the reset, the car does feel much "snappier" , as you put it, but i thought maybe he adjusted throttle in ecu or something like that. Either way, very disappointing .... I did send it back to him today because like i said, he did say he missed on the A/F ratio ... so we'll see what happens when i get it back. Not like I have any other significant options at this point anyway.

I have spoken with some people at Dyontronics that are the ones working on the ecu's in this thread.

The man I spoke with ( very friendly and accomodating, BTW) agreed that results were poor, and that more work needs to be done.

He graciously offered that if someone more local to his shop were willing to "donate" their S2 for about 1 week, he'd be happy to work on the ecu with progressive dyno pulls establishing results, or lack of ( on that car at least).

I can say this--If I lived within 1 hour drive or so--He'd be testing mine!

He invited me to post this and let whomever know to give him a call and he'd be happy to discuss it with them.

1-866-328-8863.

Did he say the tuning would be free and the person donating their car get free updates if necessary? Asking someone to give up their car for 1 week and let someone put a lot of load on the car is asking a lot.

I still say you need to ask yourself one question:

Do they have a S2 project car on site?

If the answer is no, then there really is no point and consider your tune as useless as monchie's uber suspension.

If anything your tune basically speaks for itself that tuning numbers were pulled out of the air, under no testing, crossed their fingers, and sent the ecu back to you.

No offense, but if i pay 400 bucks and send my ecu somewhere, i dont want to get it back and have the guy tell me on the phone "oh, i guess we missed something" ....

I would get my money back until a tune worth something was provided.

^Exactly. I do recall this company saying they have successfully tuned S2s though. Not sure if they every provided any proof or data to back it up.

Yet another vendor learning to tune on a customer's car. Most excellent.

Yea--all this is frustrating to say the least.

However, the argument about letting them put a ton of load on your car is almost moot given that the reason anyone wants a tune is b/c they have the propensity to drive the car to its limits--and now want higher limits. Point is, the car gets put under a lot of load on a regular basis anyway (redline a day anyone).

From my conversation with him, his reason that they don't have a S2 Rx8 on site is b/c the utter lack of demand. He has multiple speed3's, though. No thanks.

Jeff--we all acknowledge your position, and it's valid. FWIW, Right now, this is the most actively discussed tune going. For me, it's THE ONLY reason I bother with the site anymore, as I have an '05, but I like the RX8 enough to still be considering a newer S2--IF there soon comes availble a legitimate tune for it. In the meantime, I bide my time while shopping 135i coupes.

Can't hurt to give the guy a call. Don't like what he says/offers? Don't pursue it, and stay stock.

It sounds like I'm marketing this guy, I know. Again, I have an 05 shinka, so don't even have an S2 dog in this fight. I am hoping that something will develop quickly (at least the ball is rolling), and I'll end up in a white or black S2 GT TUNED! and not the bimmer.

So you think a tuner changing the timing and fuel maps and doing multiple dyno pulls is the same as going to redline once per day?

Edit: An unknown and unproven tuner at that.

Is this serious--or just being an antagonsitic ____?

Don't know that I would donate for a week. I kinda need my S2. I'll talk to him about working something out though.

V3rlon--LOL. U might want to take the dynotronics ECU out of your sig for now. Or, u can get some of this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Liqui...item20bc92e1eb and put that in your sig. JK.

You can then ride your bike for the week!

It's kind of scary actually,

Let's say I wanted to turbo the S2 and I send the ECU out. If the A/F tables haven't been touched when I get it back, I'm pretty screwed.

Yes, that would suck.

Even if they were "touched", you would still be screwed.

There are so many variables when tuning an aftermarket forced-induction setup that it is simply impossible to get it right with a "tune-in-a-can".

It MUST be customized.

Kits like the GReddy and the Pettit were tuned in house with an example on hand on a dyno. They were tuned as best as could be with the expectation that they would be installed exactly as instructed by the kit's engineers.

Even then, the calibrations are often sub-optimal.

It simply isn't possible to "guess" what values to change in that situation. You must have a feedback loop and it must be well-planed, concise and suited to manage all the possible issues that might arise under all possible operating conditions.

It simply is not possible to tune a setup the way these guys are attempting to do it.

Yeah, I'd be concerned if they did hit optimal AFRs, because that means it is almost certain to go too lean under different circumstances.
On the NC Miata ecu, it took quite a while after flashing solutions were available for people to locate the injector scalars, initially they just had fuel tables and MAF cal. That ECU is harder to reverse engineer than the S1 RX8 -- much more code, more tables, and the biggest table is something like 10x10 because it depends more on algorithms than statically calculated tables. BTW, it uses the same proc as the S2 -- Renesas SH7058.
It may be that lots of static analysis must be done on the S2 rom to locate all the parameters needed to calibrate properly, and thereafter lots of work by a talented calibration engineer like that ^ guy to figure out what works.

Yes , but how exactly do you see if a tune worth something can be provided if you don't work with the guy a little. All of you doubted that he could do this in one shot, and you may have been correct, however, there's no reason to yet believe he can't do it in 2 or 3 shots. The Hypocracy is crazy here at times .... you've just heard mazdamaniac say many time that there will never be enough profit margin to make it worth doing a cobb, but yet you all expect this guy to have an S2 on site , offer free tunes, etc for a market that he will probably never make any significant money from. Now maybe he can do better profit wise on a flash type of tune, which i'm sure he probably can , but if the possibilities are as low as most say it is in this market (s2) then either way he's not going to make that much from it.

Give the guy a chance to get this right. I for one really didn't expect this to be a one time shot. If after a few tunes it's still f'd then fine .... grill the guy all you want, lol, but at the present time this is the ONLY option we have. So, how about seeing where this goes before we all decide this is not a viable option.

Yeah i'd def be a bit nervous about having forced induction set up without him having the car .... makes perfect sense what you're saying. unfortunately , i live in the middle of no where, lol , we did get into a turbo set up discussion a bit before this initial tune and if he can get this tune right we may discuss further, but he def said it would be more involved. I don't know if that meant he would need the car or just that he thought it would be a lot more work.

The only thing all you S2 owners need to keep in mind is the process for tuning the RX8 with sending your ECU to and from this company will take time even if the company claims they can tune it in a single shot. Even more time if they are unfamiliar with the car. If the dyno is the only way to obtain logs or gain information about the car then that will also need to be factored into the total cost. Dyno shops around Phoenix charge upwards of $80 to $100 for 3 pulls on the dyno or more if you use it for the entire hour. After 3 to 4 dyno sessions plus the cost of the tune and shipping the ECU with insurance you're looking at close to $1,000.

Before anyone gives up their car as a test mule I'd be sure that you have mitigated any risk factors. Make sure any shop that is using your car as a test mule won't leave you high and dry should any "accident" take place.

I'm not discouraging anyone from following this route. I just want to make sure that everyone understands what is going to be required to get to a finished product.

And by "wont leave you high and dry" that means get documented proof of what the shop's intent is, their goals, the job they are performing, and their statement on what they will do should they damage your car or car's components, as well as their insurance representation.

Again, not really necessary on the more respected tuning companies, but when it comes to playing the guinea pig, like flashwing said, you are taking a huge risk

I don't care who it is, don't take "trust us" as an answer.

Remember, it's not personal...it's business.

It seems that the only way to do anything aftermarket forced induction would be to ship the car over and take a trip to Texas to watch him work with the car.

Or we can all donate money towards buying Jeff an S2 :D

Does someone have a complete copy of the electrical section from the FSM for the S2 I can look at?

I haz an eye-dear...

Uhh oh. Are we finally (hopefully) getting Jeff to dive into the fray? You know you can't resist Jeff:rock:

Sorta. We'll see.