Snox801

Side note team, remember when I mixed saber with e85 just to see if it separated? I mixed it well and I finally dumped it out after about 8months and half that was sitting in the sun outside. Was still mixed and suspended in e85.
Now not saying it would work but at least I knew it didn’t separate.

kevink0000

Snox801,

I remember you mentioned Interceptor not performing as well as others in your sleds. I use Interceptor and I like it, it did better in my own non-scientific home test than Saber, or others.

What did you notice about it versus other oils? Just curious.

Snox801

So interceptor seemed to work amazing and better in the oil injections systems.
But as a premix I was seeing more wear on internal parts than with saber.
In fact the old school hp injection oil was indeed my favorite injection oil. That saw the least amount of wear for injection. The saber was best for premix. I never ran the dominator long enough to know the wear rate as I could never get it to run as good. Throttle response and things that don’t really matter unless at the highest level of racing. Plus the 50:1 had more fouling issues in staging area.
Now I was mixing saber at 80:1 so a bit rich compared to 100:1 maybe that helped.
Now the saber at 80:1 and interceptor at 50:1 showed identical ring wear which was almost none. The saber seems to shine better in the lower end with bearings and oil pump gears.
Which seems weird as interceptor leaves a heavier coat of unburnt oil in pipes.
I believe it was designed not to burn off as much.
Either one is fantastic and not sure in the real world of long intervals of rebuilds either would work equally well. Maybe even interceptor a bit better in rotary.

kevink0000

Snox801,

Thanks, that was the kind of input I was looking for.

BluSpectre

I premix roughly 200:1 (0.5 oz per Gallon) with some Lucas 2 Cycle oil. I don't have any real proof of my own to show for any results or effects, but I go by advice from others.

Snox801

That’s the hard part lots of follow the leader and good marketing. It’s very hard to find the what is better. Plus you need a decent sample group to even go by.
Lots of anecdotal stuff floating around. Plus almost all oil will work to some degree. Saber was the only one that would regularly extend the ring life a substantial amount in my race sleds. So I stuck with that.

Meat Head

I have spent several evenings reading old threads including the massive 156 page closed thread on premix. Since the light bulb finally came on in my thick skull (regarding premix), I too have been trying to find the reason behind your statement Team. Probably too late now for my 125,000 km engine but, for the future engine I hope to maintain, what was missed even with the addition of the 3rd oil injector?? I get it if I’m another annoying newb with bad search skills and will keep digging for clues.

Snox801

I think it had more to do with even adding an injector it still isn’t getting enough oil. I feel they would need several more to properly lube at the very lean oil ration they have.
It’s never to late to premix.

Meat Head

I’ve been following the recent updates regarding SOHN adapter and premix on the Series 1 part of the site. Mostly to understand concerns with the OMP. This leads me back to the changes with Series 2 OMP and why the opinion premix is more essential than Series 1. From the changes list:
New EMOP "Electric Metering Oil Pumps" Two of them... Internal Oil Pressure in EMOP's is between 7.3 and 21.7 PSI (Used for the first time by Mazda)
Is the concern related to adequate oil injection delivered the electric pumps? Or is it the focus of the 3 oil injection nozzles? Are they not delivering enough to the side seals?

kevink0000

The s2 system are not really pumps, they are like fuel injectors for oil. Mazda calls them pumps. The main oil pump in the front cover provides the pressure.
Neither the s1 or the s2 deliver enough oil for good longevity as delivered by Mazda. It is wise to premix on both in my opinion. The 3 injector system in the s2 is better (I just used s2 housings in an s1 build with 6 injectors) but Mazda chose to run *probably* less oil in normal operation. There is a string here somewhere when the s2 came out, people were reporting less oil consumption, and someone made a chart. SO, the idea that the s2 needs just as much help as the s1 in the oil department came about. Like Snox said, it's never too late to premix.

Meat Head

Thanks kevink0000 - I’ve been premixing since March. Need to lower the amount after looking at the spark plugs and the build up. I was at 8 oz per tank and have dropped to 4 oz (unless at a rare track day).

kevink0000

Its up to you, but the plugs don't really tell you how much oil to use. Especially in an s2 injecting motor oil as well. You might want to experiment with different ratios. You really can do it without fear of any damage at all. I am sure I use more oil than anyone here and I am very happy about it. With a rich oil mixture my engines have run better. It's not because they are worn out, either. Try things for yourself, that is my advice.

Meat Head

I finally got the full version of VersaTune a couple days ago. Already adjusted fan trigger temperatures. I’m using one of their canned tunes as a base point. Is it worth adjusting the oil metering amounts further from the canned tune or prioritize premix and enrich the amount to 6oz or 8oz per tank?

kevink0000

In the "grand scheme" it is better to have less motor oil and more 2t. But, I believe the OMP delivers oil in better fashion (less oil to get the same job done) than premix does. SO, if you are asking me what I would do if it was my car, I would do both. If you are using a good 2t oil that has the latest ratings, it wont hurt the cat. If you are using a modern SP motor oil, additional oil will not hurt the cat either. That would be the only consideration besides cost. You wont foul plugs or clog exhaust ports even with large, large amounts of oil, amounts that nobody here would even want to try.

Snox801

I would turn mine down and increase the premix. That is indeed my plan but have not had time to order versa tune yet.

Meat Head

I’ve been adjusting premix at the moment and observing fuel consumption. Not sure if this is the best analysis method. It might be due to higher temperatures right now but, I noticed dropping from 8 oz per tank to 4 increased distance per tank. Did I read correctly that too much premix lowers octane? I’m using Amsoil Interceptor. I thought 8 oz per tank was a good track day amount just too rich for daily. I’m trying 6 per tank right now. Tomorrow I’ll look at what the canned tune has for stepped up OMP feed.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

^^again, why are you using Interceptor rather than Amsoil Saber Professional? That makes no sense at all from the technical/quality perspective.

as far as I’m aware, premix for the S2 is no different than the S1.
.

Meat Head

Team
1 word - ignorance.
After more reading the gist is Interceptor is better for injection, Sabre better for premix. I split a box of Interceptor with a friend. Next box will be Sabre. Thanks for the help.

Snox801

I was gonna say the same thing. A 8oz bottle of saber will offer much more protection than 8oz of interceptor. Second after all the years of being in the two stroke game with development of race engines I can say I’ve seen zero evidence that interceptor is any better at anything than saber.
I run 8oz saber in both mine and have played with the larger 12-13oz bottle also. Neither showed any negative effects. If anything. More oil may cause more heat but not sure we could even measure that difference.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

kind of funny he proposed running less premix oil when Saber Professional offers same or better protection at 1/2 the amount of Intercepter.

Snox801

It indeed does. Interceptor oil if premixed was only able to go up to 50:1 ratio and protect while saber was able to reach 100:1 and keep things free.

Meat Head

I am trying to figure out how much is effective since there are a few different recommendations here and in other threads regarding ratios. Fuel economy and how it changes (since my drive route is constant) along with plug deposits seemed a good indicator of how much premix to use. 8 oz per fill up seemed a little rich for daily driving and plugs had heavier deposits. From what I’ve observed 4 oz is too little and 6 oz (roughly) is happy. No coincidence since 50 litres at 250:1 is 200 ml. Just had to prove you weren’t leading me astray.

Thanks for the clear information backing up why I need to switch premix.

kevink0000

I never proposed Interceptor, that I am aware of, for a premix only situation at lean ratios. I don't think it is best in that regard. Maybe that was directed to someone else?

But, I use it to inject as well as premix, and I have tried both, and prefer Interceptor, for a few reasons. To each his own.

For premix only, I agree Saber is the proven choice.

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

yes, per the context of the 8 or so previous posts …
.

Meat Head

Team - I have appreciated in the past your replies to DM and all the other knowledge passed on in numerous threads.

Your most recent responses here to my legitimate questions that differ in no way from questions posed by others over the years in the quest for understanding expose the irony in your signature “ No Malarkey “.

In the future if there is an issue between us, please resist the urge to attempt belittling me in a thread related to the gaining of knowledge. DM me and I will address what has caused offence.

Thanks