xexok

Wow thanks Ash, great topic. Always wondered what that clunk was when I first start going lol.

There is also a thread for Mazda Official "M'Tips" (Technical How To Tips for Mazda Service Techs), some do not apply to Series 2 RX-8's, some apply to all RX-8's
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/mazda-rx-8-m-tips-service-techs-219328/

Beefy98

Hmmm interesting about the shock one. That they won't replace it unless its like half covered in oil..


And isn't that the reason they have a 15mm higher rear spring perch on the S2 so as to prevent bottoming and possible shock failure?

Sixsix

Ha that's why my phone charger gets stuck in the outlet

seanp

Ash -- sterling service there! Thanks!

T-von

"2009-2010 Engine cranks no start." I hate it when I'm right as the S2's still flood. I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Mazda will never be rid of the rotary related flooding issue unless they finally implement an auto feed premix set-up to the gas tank. If a rotary is premixed from day one, flooding and carbon build-up will no longer exist. Mazda can easily engineer a system that will add 2 cyl oil from a dedicated reservoir to the gas tank. The system can use the fuel sender to determine the amount of gas added and the system can add the appropriate oil amount. This same system can also feed the OMP so consumers will no longer have to check their dropping oil sump levels every other fill-up. Just simply fill-up your 2 cyl oil reservoir every oil change and your good to go. Cold start and shut down will no longer be a problem. Wanna idle your rotary all day long???? Still not a problem with with this set-up. This will eliminate all the ROTARY RITUAL related stuff as well. Toyota has a similar system in the early 90's Previa. That van had and extra 2 qt engine oil reservoir that would automatically add oil to the engine, if the engine oil level in the sump dropped too low. That's 20 yr old tech that Mazda can easily implement in future rotary vehicles. The excessive carbon build-up (which causes the low compression and flooding problems) is what's killed the Rx8s reputation. The new 16X WILL suffer the same fate unless Mazda does something about. Mazda needs to do everything in their power to make this engine more consumer friendly. The auto tank feed set-up is the ticket. I've been wanting to build this set-up for the past 5 years.

ASH8

Really, this 2009-2010 TSB is more related to carbon issues or stuck Apex Seals, this is the reason Engine Oil or Seafoam is ingested to free up any sticking Seal(s).

Regardless of whether you Pre-Mix or not, pre-mix does not really prevent Carbon, it just keeps Apex Seals well lubed, good compressions, and any Carbon slightly softer on Rotors and Seals, again pre-mix does not stop Carbon.

Spark Plug fouling or Wet plugs is the result of early Engine Turn Off when engine is still very cold.

I have turned my S2 engine off early many, many times and never a hint of a hard to start, I am at 35,000 KMS...

IMO one of the MAIN Issues that is rarely talked about is the issue of Owners, those that do blipping, pumping or moving their Accelerator Pedals while Cranking at ANY temp stage.

If your cars is in good tune (Spark Plugs and Coils) you should never need to touch the Accelerator Pedal when starting..ever..

I personally just turn the Key to ON for a few seconds (dash lights all go off) and then I engage the Starter...never has any hard to start issue.

While I don't disagree with you about an Auto Feed System for Apex Seal lube, It won't be consumer friendly..unfortunately, it would be another "negative" perception which would be highlighted time and time again by reviewers.

plain ole wanker

Yep, I haven't done this since fuel injected cars came along. I miss the old carburators pumping pedal and screw driver trick in the butterfly valve to get the car started.

alnielsen

iTrader: (4)

I think this is an issue that more people need to pay attention to. You need to build the fuel pressure to get the injectors to do their job efficiently.

T-von

I guess I was being too literal about the "stop part" Yes your right that premix doesn't stop carbon but what it does is eliminate any chance of it building up to a point that it causes compression problems later on. Premixing coats the rotor face and seal groves with an oil film that carbon can't adhear too. When carbon can't adhear to a surface, there's no build-up. My rebuilt S5 engine has 45k on it and is been pre-mix only. As soon as my 20b project is complete, I will break down that S5 engine for inspection and post pics on the forum to show the carbon build-up differences between and engine that is premixed vs an engine is not. I haven't driven it in almost 2 years. Keep in mind this engine has been granny driven and shifted at 3k all the time. To see if it will flood, I will put a battery on it and fire it up. Then I'm gonna shut it down cold and let it sit for 20mins. Then I'm gonna see if it will fire up again (which I strongly believe it will). In the end, the experiment results will speak for themselves.


Don't you premix?

I disagree about the "negative" perception. Anything is more consumer friendly than having to check your oil level all the time, or getting stranded when your engine floods, or having your engine replaced multiple times under warranty. I worked for Mazda's service department and saw 1st hand the consumers frustration every time their 8's got towed in over a flooding issue. The Rx8 isn't a hi volume selling vehicle so it's pretty ridiculous to see 3 or 4 rx8 sitting out side waiting to be unflodded. So many people have sworn to NEVER buy a rotary ever again because of the flooding. You have to consider that we rotor heads don't mind doing all the little extra things to these engines. But the average consumer, wants a reliable car that they can just put gas in and go. They don't want the inconvenience of having to do all the little extra stuff. That auto feed system will solve 99% of all the major rotary related problems in more ways than one.

jasonrxeight

its not rotary engines that can flood. any engines can flood. Ive flooded my Jeep's engine when cold many times. again if the engine is in good working order, it should start up again no problem.

T-von

I promise you it's not that simple. Modern day fuel injected engines don't flood. Rotary's still do. That's the problem! Keeping the engine in good working order won't do anything for the carbon build-up internally (unless your premixing or water steam cleaning, or revving it hard). Take your pick! Doing any single 1 of those 3 things will keep carbon build-up away in a rotary. Now that's additional stuff the average consumer isn't going to do as they are clueless and treat this car just like every other car. It's all in how you drive it. If your not going to be doing any additional stuff to keep carbon away, then you have to do everything to keep the combustion temps as hi as possible (which is done by reeving the engine hard occasionally).

The water thing is what I did on my Fd every 6 months and it's the only Rx7 that I've owned that's NEVER flooded EVER. When the original engine had 86k on it, I did 6 consecutive cold starts in 40 degree weather (intentionally trying to flood the engine) and it fired-up every single time. This all happened when the engine sat up for 4 months of NOT being driven. Any other rotary would have been flooded to hell. Not too many fd running around with original engines that's lasted as long as mine did. I blew it with 108k from over boosting. Anyways, both my 1st gens and my S5 Vert have flooded because I didn't do what was necessary to keep carbon away. Over the past 20 years, I've learned what needs to be done.

You yourself admitted on your thread you run your engine hard. Subsequently you are doing one of the things necessary to keep carbon build-up down. The way it's meant to be run (which has nothing to do with your maintenance or the oil you use). I ran all kinds of different oils through my Fd engine. It didn't matter. What mattered was my extra step to do carbon cleanings. 95% of other owners granny drive these things and don't do anything to reduce carbon build-up. That's when the **** hits the fan with these engine. After 20years of rebuilding / experimenting with these things. I'm just trying to pass on what I've learned to help others. Mazda has done nothing different to make the combustion process more COMPLETE or EFFICIENT in the S2. This engine WILL build carbon just as fast an any previous rotary engine unless you do 1 of the above to slow the process.

I'll leave this thread along now since the subject is about Sb's.

ASH8

Completely agree, with all your above comments.

I don't think anyone has said that the S2 Renny will be any different Carbon wise, as it wont.

What is different is how the Apex Seals are lubricated, far superior set up, and how the Oil is filtered, again far superior (as No oil can be bypassed with out it being filtered first, unless Oil Filter membranes are blocked and filter goes into by pass mode).

The only thing I will add is Ignition, particularly Spark Plugs, even the Iridiums, IMO should be renewed sooner, even though they will go "the distance" their spark efficiency wont.

Back on Thread topic..

T-von

You are 100% right about the efficiency part. The old style plugs I changed once a year because they misfire easily when you start piling on the miles.

squall

May i ask where you got the PDF files and information?

I am taking my rx8 in tomorrow to get the engine hopefully replaced. (95k miles)
I also need to get my engine mounts replaced but they keep saying its not under warranty. You have listed here that the engine mounts are now covered by the new power train warranty?

Am i reading that right? That here you have it listed to be covered by the 8yr/100,000 ?

ASH8

If your car (I guess Series 1 2004-2008 RX-8) has covered 95K miles, then your Engine Mounts are NOT covered Under Warranty...as the TSB reads...
"This repair will be covered under Mazda’s New Vehicle Limited Warranty term for a Powertrain Component."

This is Mazda USA's New Vehicle Warranty Periods.....

Mazda warrants that new Mazda cars and trucks will be free of defects with normal use and prescribed maintenance for 36 months or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Ordinary maintenance items, adjustments, parts subject to normal wear and certain other items are excluded. This transferable "limited warranty" is included on all new Mazda vehicles sold and serviced in the United States.

3-year/36,000-mile* "Bumper-to-Bumper" Limited Warranty
5-year/60,000-mile* Limited Powertrain Warranty
3-year/36,000-mile* 24/7 Roadside Assistance Program

* Whichever comes first.

ASH8

The LIMITED Powertrain Warranty (Mounts) is 5 Years or 60K miles, the ENGINE Core Warranty is 8 years or 100K miles..

zoom44

This thread includes discussion from the Series II TSB thread stickied here www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=212228 all discussion about that thread or the TSBs in that thread should stay here. That thread is locked to keep it easy to find the info and navigate.

ASH8

New TSB Added...see first post /\ in this thread for link.

Steering Gear Noise and or Vibration When Turning Steering Wheel

alnleslie

I just got a call from the local Mazda dealer today and he wants me to bring in my 2009 RX-8 for a "Software update"?

This is the same dealer that I won't let change my oil because they always leave bolts out/loose. Had the tranny worked on (Under warranty, thank god) and they left the big nuts on the back of the beam running from the tranny to the rear end, one off and the other at the end of the threads. Then when I took it back to get it fixed because it pops out of 3rd all the time, they had to put in a new tranny, and while I was checking it out, I noticed that 2 bolts were never put back. 1 on the starter and one on the opposite side bottom. Hence I really don't trust them.

Anyway, if anyone knows about this "update" and any good/bad outcomes, please let me know.

Thanks
AL

ASH8

Yes, there is a firmware update for early Series II PCM/ECU.

Mine was done, unfortunately Mazda is usually unspecific on what the update is for.
Sometimes MMC Japan will link a firmware update with a TSB.

In my case there was no TSB, MMDS (IDS) prompted saying there was an update available, do you want to proceed...yes or no.
I could have checked Event Logs, but........

As my S2 is an early made one, 4 months after S2 production started I recall hearing something about EMOP Driver Software Update?

Anyway, no Dealer can really stuff up a flash, takes about 10 mins.

alnleslie

ASH8, Thanks for the information. I couldn't find anything about a recall and I didn't want to go in there blind (again) just in case they could "stuff" something up.

Thanks again,
AL

ASH8

Keep in mind it (pcm/ecu) in this case is not a recall, and may not apply to your S2 build date.

In these cases ONLY connecting to Mazda IDS will confirm any software UPDATE or not.