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Call me blind or whatever because I'm probably overlooking it, but where is the ignition condenser on an 04? I was researching ignition upgrades and somehow found my way into a thread somewhere that said the ignition condenser if missing, failed, or otherwise not working can cause misfires and all kinds of other ignition related issues. For such a cheap part I am extremely tempted to just swap in a new one but can't seem to locate it. Anyone able to point me in the right direction?
For OEM there is technically no available or separate OEM 'Ignition Condenser'.
It is all internally included on each OEM Ignition Coils which has been upgraded by Mazda over the years.
Now if you want to 'upgrade' your ignition, then you have other options, BHR or others.
Or you can just change your 4 coils to current Mazda OEMs, add in some new spark plugs and HT Leads.
Is there a reason why you believe you require and 'upgrade'?
As A suggestion and depending on your abilities, IMO the OEM set up is perhaps the easiest to do, I can recommend you contact Mazmart for a good deal, or BHR for his set up of GM Coils. http://shop.mazmart.com/en/ignition
BTW: If you go for cheap OEM clones or eBay lookalikes, just be careful as many are not long lasting and or result in other ignition issues, or coil/spark problems.
I have tried a custome LS style kit and known working factory coils. I know my fuel pump and injectors are fine, I have good compression, and the plugs dont even have 10 miles on them. Yet I still have issues with misfires. The only thing I can think is either the custom kit was crap and the known good factory coils arent 100% or there is another problem. My 8 is an 04 that I have been tinkering with over the last 2 years as a project. It runs fine just really really hafes starting when sat overnight. No coolant leaks either. The only thing I havent replaced with 100% new is coils and the ESS sensor. Did notice earlier that is I rev it up and shut it off it takes a few seconds to restart. But if I let it idle for a few seconds before I shut it off it starts almost instantly. Another thing I noticed is the tach drops out sometimes when cranking, and when it comes back up the engine will start.
You have a number of options for coils: - The Cheapest option: BWD/Intermotor coils from auto parts stores like Advance Auto. 4 coils, 4 plugs, and 4 wires can be had for around $190-220 total based on whatever promotion is running at the time, shipped to your door for free. They are considered to be the first coil revision and you should expect to need to replace them around 20,000 miles, 30,000 miles max. They often come with a "lifetime warranty" by the auto parts store, which could potentially be leveraged for perpetually new coils.
- The Best Upgrade: The BHR ignition coil upgrade can be had for around $500, which eliminates the need to continue replacing coils periodically, as well as deliverying a significantly stronger spark for minor mileage and power gains. It is a proven kit with top notch customer service supporting it. It includes the wires, you still need to add plugs ($80)
- The For-Sure OEM: Mazmart sells all 4 coils of the latest OEM coil revision (C) for around $250, (just the coils, you still need to add plugs and wires) Supported by top notch customer service. They will likely last longer than 30,000 miles, but we don't have much solid data on how long the latest coil revision will last.
- The Most Expensive option: Buying from a dealer will run you around $300+ for the coils, $500+ for coils, wires and plugs, and if you have them do the install, expect to get a bill for anywhere from $700 to $1,800. You may not get the latest coil revision. Yes, you are getting shafted if you take this option, so bring lube.
- The Highest Risk option: Ebay coils continue to pop up as counterfeit, mislabeled, dead on arrival, and have zero post-purchase support largely. They are the "cheapest" listed price, but when you add that $92 or whatever to the price of anything in the list above from having to do it over again, you can see that they are no longer the cheapest option. Do it right the first time. "Motor King" coils are popping up at an attractive price on Ebay, but are being proven as ineffective, to the point of being unable to get the engine fired. "Mazda" branded coils on ebay are almost always counterfeit. Check the seller's name though, since some of our vendors sell legitimate coils there. The price will be $200+ though. Anything sold as "Mazda OEM" under ~$26 per coil should really be considered as suspect and probably counterfeit.
Be wary of "LSx D585 coil upgrades",as not all D585 coils are created the same, and the standard generic D585 coil is not properly designed internally for the RX-8's ignition needs. They generally "work", but there are anomalies and performance issues that have to be solved, if they can be solved. Definitely NOT a plug and play option, even if it is advertised as "plug and play"
And yes I said in thread that in the 2009 S2 it was first removed, and later brought back in late 2010 S2s from memory (after that thread date) with no other changes to ignition, pcm, etc.
This same exact part N3A1-66-991 originated in FD RX-7's which has different Coil pack. (Just as reference).
Never heard of them actually being an issue or needing replacement, and as I said my 09 S2 does not have one and I don't have problems..
I would be looking elsewhere, like new OEM Coils.
Starting?, take your pick, Battery?, Starter?, then compression, but you say OK.
Look at any other non OEM electrical alterations?, poorly connected, Stereos, Other Lights, LEDS, other alterations or splicing (T-Caps) of factory wiring like an alarm system install, just throwing out other things that 'may' contribute, poor grounds, battery clamps.
Still go back to Coils, Wires, until these are renewed, it is a guessing game over the net.
And yes I said in thread that in the 2009 S2 it was first removed, and later brought back in late 2010 S2s from memory (after that thread date) with no other changes to ignition, pcm, etc.
This same exact part N3A1-66-991 originated in FD RX-7's which has different Coil pack. (Just as reference).
Never heard of them actually being an issue or needing replacement, and as I said my 09 S2 does not have one and I don't have problems..
I would be looking elsewhere, like new OEM Coils.
Starting?, take your pick, Battery?, Starter?, then compression, but you say OK.
Look at any other non OEM electrical alterations?, poorly connected, Stereos, Other Lights, LEDS, other alterations or splicing (T-Caps) of factory wiring like an alarm system install, just throwing out other things that 'may' contribute, poor grounds, battery clamps.
Still go back to Coils, Wires, until these are renewed, it is a guessing game over the net.
I do know that prior to me purchasing it the engine was replaced 37,000 miles ago. I am finding connectors everywhere with broken locking tabs everywhere. Thats why I am wanting to check to make sure that the condenser is still plugged up at the very least. As for battery and starter, both are brand new. No other modifications other than a gutted cat, Injen intake, and a ground kit. I did run codes earlier and noticed that I am getting codes for a couple of tbe vacuum solenoids on the back on the intake, and multiple codes for the MAF: P0100 and P0104. Maybe its not ignition, maybe its the MAF.
Sorry, fell asleep last night. It's located on top of the engine beneath the upper intake manifold, shown as # 66-991F in the attached diagram. As far as I know it's purpose is reduce ignition electric noise. Never heard of one going bad, but I suppose anything is possible.
Any number of different issues can cause misfires. It could be as simple as a bad ground or as complicated as multiple separate issues. The only way to economically work your way through the situation is by a logical path of testing and verification.
Any number of different issues can cause misfires. It could be as simple as a bad ground or as complicated as multiple separate issues. The only way to economically work your way through the situation is by a logical path of testing and verification.
This is true. I guess I figured that since the coils in it right now are borrowed from a member on here who says they are known working that they are. But I did notice something last night. At idle when warmed up I was seeing 9 g/s on my MAF sensor. Isnt that a bit high? I know my fuel pump and injectors work, but what if its a compound issue like you say? What if its a combo of old coils and a MAF reading too high? Edit: I tesred my set of coils, not the borrowed ones, and they did test bad in terms of actual resistance numbers in comparison to kIown good and known bad coils.
Last edited by ShadowGryphon; 08-28-2017 at 07:42 AM.
Start with those vacuum solenoids. If the intake valves aren't opening the engine is getting choked on intake air and flooded with fuel or similar variations. This is why you need to either have some mechanical background or the ability to think the situation through properly. At least at some point I hope you stop spending money on more ignition coils.
Well, I atleast have to spend money on a brand new set. Cause I have to send the borrowed set back. And would you suggesr just replacing all 3 solenoids? Or just the ones throwing codes? Codes are P0661 and P0076. P2259 is throwing but I had the air pump disconnected
P0661 SSV solenoid valve control circuit low ON 2 CCM
P0076 VDI solenoid valve control circuit low OFF 2 CCM
P2259 AIR solenoid valve control circuit low ON 2 CCM
From what you have said, they may as likely be improperly connected ,as be defective. . You could use a wiring circuit diagram. As TeamRX8 suggests tackle those vacuum solenoids first. Can you get a good working set of coils and get your vacuum issues sorted before spending on BHR coil kit (which I do recommend in the long run)
P0661 SSV solenoid valve control circuit low ON 2 CCM
P0076 VDI solenoid valve control circuit low OFF 2 CCM
P2259 AIR solenoid valve control circuit low ON 2 CCM
From what you have said, they may as likely be improperly connected ,as be defective. . You could use a wiring circuit diagram. As TeamRX8 suggests tackle those vacuum solenoids first. Can you get a good working set of coils and get your vacuum issues sorted before spending on BHR coil kit (which I do recommend in the long run)
Ive had the intake off a few times so its likely that the connections arent 100%. But for peace of mind I will likely just replace all 3. Everything but the engine itself has 110,000 miles on it. I borrowed a known working set of coils from a member on here, and so far it runs smoother but still has issues srarting when sat overnight. But now that I have dtc's that are pointing me towards the solenoids that would explain why I only have 1-3" of vacuum when cranking.
For testing purposes do the SSV and VDI open or close when vacuum is applied. I might try rigging them shut to see if thats part of the problem
Last edited by ShadowGryphon; 08-28-2017 at 07:20 PM.
Click "Engine"
Click "ON-BOARD DIAGNOSTIC[ENGINE CONTROL SYSTEM (13B-MSP)]"
Click the appropriate P-code.
If you read the pages for P0076/P0661/P2259, you'll see they aren't caused by the actuators themselves but rather the PCM monitoring the voltage at the solenoids that feed vacuum to the actuators. If you're getting those codes, you have an electrical problem. Either the solenoids are bad or the signals going to them are bad.
The process for testing the solenoids is detailed there.
If you determine the solenoid is bad, don't pay dealer price for it. I bought one of these to replace my SSV solenoid and it works perfectly:
Click "Engine"
Click "ON-BOARD DIAGNOSTIC[ENGINE CONTROL SYSTEM (13B-MSP)]"
Click the appropriate P-code.
If you read the pages for P0076/P0661/P2259, you'll see they aren't caused by the actuators themselves but rather the PCM monitoring the voltage at the solenoids that feed vacuum to the actuators. If you're getting those codes, you have an electrical problem. Either the solenoids are bad or the signals going to them are bad.
The process for testing the solenoids is detailed there.
I didnt mean replacing the actuators. I meant replacing the solenoids. But I wanted to see if there was a possibility the solenoids are bad making the actuators keep the valves open
Ive had the intake off a few times so its likely that the connections arent 100%. But for peace of mind I will likely just replace all 3. Everything but the engine itself has 110,000 miles on it. I borrowed a known working set of coils from a member on here, and so far it runs smoother but still has issues srarting when sat overnight. But now that I have dtc's that are pointing me towards the solenoids that would explain why I only have 1-3" of vacuum when cranking.
For testing purposes do the SSV and VDI open or close when vacuum is applied. I might try rigging them shut to see if thats part of the problem
Originally Posted by ShadowGryphon
I didnt mean replacing the actuators. I meant replacing the solenoids. But I wanted to see if there was a possibility the solenoids are bad making the actuators keep the valves open
Then why were you asking about the valves?
Assuming the solenoids are applying vacuum to the valves, they are closed systems. When the solenoid is off, the connected actuator is open to atmo (to let the actuator "close"). When the solenoid is on, the connection to atmo is closed and vacuum is applied to the valve. The solenoids themselves are mounted directly to a vacuum accumulator with a check valve between it and the intake manifold so that even if the intake loses vacuum, the accumulator still maintain vacuum (so the solenoids will work at WOT).
If you have a vacuum leak, you have a vacuum leak but that isn't necessarily related to the electrical problem with the solenoids. You can test this by pulling the solenoids and testing airflow with zero and 12V applied to the pins (as detailed in the FSM I linked to above).
If you want to test the actuators (both in operation and ability to hold vacuum), you can do that by connecting a MityVac to them and pulling vacuum.
Team is right, condensers are for Ignition noise suppression for Stereo's, some mounted on the actual sound system or both..
OP, I thought you had a misfire issue?
Was going to suggest MAF, but yeah if those Solenoids for Vacc hoses are not connected or in correct order you will get RMP Idle hunting (idle up and down) and intake SSV not opening at higher RPM. The nipple under next to the Throttle Body on black intake gets overlooked IF you have removed everything, it must be connected.
Just to clear up what can happen when the ignition condensor fails. Misfire, misfire , misfire. Usually only fires on rotor 1, leading and trailing. No visible fire on rotor 2 leading or trailing. Trailing should not fire while cranking, only after the car starts. So if you are firing on only 1 rotor, leading and trailing replace it. Its about the cheapest part you can purchase $15.
If you have really good compression the engine will kinda run on one rotor and smoke like crazy. If you have low compression you might hear the condensor pop and the car dies and never starts again.
Everyone always say that the coils are bad. I bought new coils, oh you must have got a bad one. I swap the coils a dozen times, You must have used a dozen bad coils.
Coils can and do go bad but there are other things that efect fire.
I spent a lot of money and time with this issue on a 04. Had the same problem on an 06, only cost me $15 to fix. There is very little info on this problem and a bunch of bad advise.
Once coils are eleminated move on. If its not the condensor check the crank sensor and plate, grounds and then the Ecm.
Call me blind or whatever because I'm probably overlooking it, but where is the ignition condenser on an 04? I was researching ignition upgrades and somehow found my way into a thread somewhere that said the ignition condenser if missing, failed, or otherwise not working can cause misfires and all kinds of other ignition related issues. For such a cheap part I am extremely tempted to just swap in a new one but can't seem to locate it. Anyone able to point me in the right direction?
Just to clear up what can happen when the ignition condensor fails. Misfire, misfire , misfire. Usually only fires on rotor 1, leading and trailing. No visible fire on rotor 2 leading or trailing. Trailing should not fire while cranking, only after the car starts. So if you are firing on only 1 rotor, leading and trailing replace it. Its about the cheapest part you can purchase $15.
If you have really good compression the engine will kinda run on one rotor and smoke like crazy. If you have low compression you might hear the condensor pop and the car dies and never starts again.
Everyone always say that the coils are bad. I bought new coils, oh you must have got a bad one. I swap the coils a dozen times, You must have used a dozen bad coils.
Coils can and do go bad but there are other things that efect fire.
I spent a lot of money and time with this issue on a 04. Had the same problem on an 06, only cost me $15 to fix. There is very little info on this problem and a bunch of bad advise.
Once coils are eleminated move on. If its not the condensor check the crank sensor and plate, grounds and then the Ecm.
That seems to go against everything I know about the RX8 ignition system. I’m pretty sure that the condensor isn’t even listed as an item to check or replace in any of the troubleshooting procedures. Not saying you’re not right, but it’d be an interesting thing to test out some day to verify
The question I have is why were you swapping coils rather than testing them properly?
I did not swap coils out a dozen times, I was just commenting on how many of the replies related to firing issues go on and on about how it must be the coils or you purchased a bad one. Your are correct you should test them properly and then replace or move on.
Now as far as the condenser goes I would have never guessed this could cause the firing issue I described earlier. The Mazda Dealer could not figure it out either. I worked on it for a week , Mazda had it for two weeks. Had it hauled back home and started trying to figure it out again. I did a lot of research on line and educating myself as much as possible and found several people with the firing issue described earlier but no fix.
I called an old rotary guy with a good reputation, I actually felt bad calling someone half way across the country asking for basically free advise but that's were I was at. I described the firing issue and went through a list of everything I had done and the dealer did. His exact words were "this may sound crazy but change the condenser". He had seen this same issue a few times over the years but stated he did not understand why. I also do not understand why but have seen this twice and read several post were people had the same issue.
I do not claim to be the best mechanic nor the worst. Just an issue I have experienced and have found very little helpful info on. I know how frustrating it was to solve this issue and just wanted to share my experience.
YES, I am bring back an old thread. I am having this same issue but my car will not even start with no spark. new, wires, plugs, changed the coils and ess from a RUNNING car and still no juice to the coil plugs. I am hoping the condensor is the issue.
YES, I am bring back an old thread. I am having this same issue but my car will not even start with no spark. new, wires, plugs, changed the coils and ess from a RUNNING car and still no juice to the coil plugs. I am hoping the condensor is the issue.
Hey guys, greetings from the UK!
i have had an 05 RX8 for just over 12 months which had a good compression test readout taken just before i bought it... and it’s been running like a dream up until a week ago!
Major loss of power while accelerating, then flooded it while trying to restart it...
Similar stories seen on these forums which some only seem to get solved by replacing ignition condenser... plus i’ve replaced sparks and coils and tested leads (all good)
Has any1 else had success replacing the condenser and do the symptoms ever come back?
Cheers,
Darren.
Last edited by Darren John Rudecki; 10-03-2019 at 03:45 PM.
Reason: Spelling mistake
08-27-2017, 07:29 PM
