Usual caveat – I have had a quick search but prefer chatting to people so if anyone wants to help fine but if not….. move along there is nothing to see here!

For the record new plugs, coils and leaads.

When I first got my RX8 it started in an instant. Then slowly it got harder and harder to start. It would also stall out at very unexpected moments and prove very very difficult to restart.

The previous owner would often leave Maui for 6-10 months and, in a damp climate, the car was not happy to be left unloved.

I have driven it fairly hard for about 9,000 miles in the last year and now it hums along nicely.

To deal with the problems stalling and funny noises I got new plugs, coils and leads. This really did not cure the stalling so I bought a set of BHR super coils and whammo everything was fine… for while.

Slowly but surely she is getting more difficult to start again. Not at all bad but progressively slower which makes me nervous for the future.

Initially it was – key turn- rum. Almost no delay at all. Then it was key turn rur rum. Now it is key turn rur rur rur rum- only about two or three seconds but a lot longer than it used to be. (see below)

The stalling seems also to be happening a little more frequently. It nearly always happens with the AC on. At the traffic lights, the revs drop to 800 or so, and when you take off it dies. V embarrassing. I am guessing it needs to rev a little faster but surely these days that is handled by the computer not some little screw like I remember from the old days. (And before you say it – yes I turn the AC off at the lights every time I remember.)

So what should I be looking at. I can get OBD but not sure what I should be looking for.

Any advice gratefully received.

TIA for any thoughts

Aloha Steve

PS I wrote this a couple of days ago. Tonight after a short journey she stalled about four times coming out of a car park. I am getting VERY nervous.

 

Yep, be nervous... Your symptoms point at only one thing, and you can guess what it is!

 

And this is worse when the car is hot right?

Shall I tell him or does someone else want to?

 

I wouldn't jump on that he needs a new motor just yet guys................c'mon. It could be as easy as a dirty ESS, MAF, or throttle body in need of cleaning.


Steve.....................first off what year is the car, how many miles, manual or auto?

If it's an 04, then it could have the weak starter, but that wouldn't really explain the stalling.
I'll assume you have no CEL(Check engine light) on at the moment?
How mechanically inclined are you? If you CAT is clogged, you could verify this by taking it loose and moving over to one side to see if the honeycomb is intact or not?

 

This is what stuck out:I am sorry to put a scare onto you but I had the same exact symptoms for at least two weeks before my engine completely lost compression and took it's last slurp of oil/fuel. I changed my plugs, wires, and coils and starter/battery had 10-12,500 miles of use; Cat-converter honey comb is intact with about 65,000 miles in it. ESS, MAF, and IAT sensors were cleaned; and I only had a CEL: P2259 which was a faulty Air Solenoid Valve.

 

OK thanks all. Not 100% certain I am understanding the thread but that may be because I am a little ill at moment.

I should have said it is a 2005 auto with just shy of 60,000 miles on the clock.

Did a compression test in December came back pretty OK - not great but in the ballpark (sorry don't have the figures here).

As to the CAT - I have wondered about that. When I rev it up a bit at first start in the morning I get a sort of muffled backfire - is that normal????

This stalling and slower start iis sort of how it used to be before I put the fancy BHR coils in.

Absolutely fine today of course.

Could it be gremlins.... Oh I give up. I should have bought the Prius.

More when feeling more human oh and no CEL except after the battery was flat and had to jump start it - had something then (about a month ago) but since then nothing.

Is there anything on OBD that might give a read???

Once more grateful for pointers - oh and MAF cleaned this morning but it looked spotless (not like the first time I cleaned it).

Not sure about where to get at the others. (ESS and throttle body - dealer suggestd throttle body - is it easy to get at??)

If they are straightforward will give them a go.

Sorry rambling - off to bed.

And once again thanks.

Steve

 

The OBD reader cannot help you but scan for CEL codes. Your 2005 with +60,000 miles might qualify you for a reman' engine, so put the OEM stuff back and bring the car to a MAZDA dealer that can perform an engine compression test will be your best option.

 

If you don't know what the throttle body looks like, or where it's at on the RX-8, you should just hand your car over to the Mazda dealer, and just let them find the source of your troubles.

To the other forum members:
If the car starts up fine when fully cold, but has trouble staying running while the car is fully warmed up, doesn't that normally lean towards a fuel pump issue more so than a compression problem?

BC.

 

Like I pointed out, his starting issue is getting progressively worse and his RPM dips below 800 RPM and stalls when his A/C is on. Ideally the ECU would raise its idle up to 950-1100 RPM once you turn the A/C ON, instead the car stalls when the car comes to a complete stop. When I experienced the problem, I had +160,000 miles in my engine and performed all the changes and cleaned what needed to be cleaned (except for my fuel pump/sock filter) as mentioned in other threads suggesting idle problems. I even had the thought of asking a friend to borrow his COBB AP and change the stock A/C-ON RPM setting over 1250 RPM. Nevertheless, MauiMazda2 still needs to have the car back to stock and take it to the dealer, as suggested.

 

OK well there are a few misconceptions flying around but I have fallen on my feet I think.

Reading up on ESS it looks like an external cleaning is OK (a clean over with a rag). Just want to check - is it fairly accessible with the car up on a hoist???
https://www.rx8club.com/trouble-shoo...lerate-221425/

The local dealer is giving me a bargain basement price for trans flush (needed) and is throwing in a free oil change - all because I was booked in for trans flush in late December and, being in the middle of the Pacific, they have only just got the fluid in!

I looked into doing the throttle body (the MAF is CLEAN) but as they are going to do ESS and Throttle body for $33 seems silly to get my hands dirty.

TIA will report back

Steve

 

OK well throttle body cleaned and maybe a little improvement but still lots of probs.

The improvement is that often, at the lights for example, the revs dip but then come back up to around 1k. That suggest to me that there may have been a bit of a problem with the throttle sticking when the engine management system told it to rev up a little......

BUT it is still doing complete stall outs every so often with the aircon on and still can be a bit hard to start and once or twice frighteningly hard to start (particularly after a short (3 mile or so) run).

I had a compression test done in December. Results:

Rotor 1: 238 RPM 6.7 KPA, 7.0, 6.8
Rotor 2: 244 RPM 6.6 KPA, 7.0, 6.5

From my reading these are OK for around 60,000 miles.

My problem with the idea of engine being buggered is it is going so well at the moment - responsive, going up the mountain here at over xx mph (a good number I do not want to say in public).

One of the engineers at the dealership said it could be a vacuum seal problem or coking (carbon) build up in the engine.

The engine was decoked (?) about 20,000 miles ago. I have had it for 10,000. When I first got it I had some unpleasant noises buy they have all gone. I think it may have been one of the seals not moving correctly but I have been driving it hard for 10K and think I would have cleaned it out... (previous owner sometimes let it sit for 9 months without driving).

My problem is that apart from stalling and difficulty starting it is going like a flipping rocket. I just find that difficult to match with the idea that the engine is buggered.... Oh and just checked OBD no trouble codes at all in last 160 miles (which has included a couple of stall outs).

Grateful for any thoughts or I will just drop it back to the dealership but that looks like it could be an open-ended expense :-(

Aloha and thanks for all the input so far.

Steve

 

OK the starting is a little worse. Quite hard to start after a short run.

It occurs to me that for the last six to eight months I have been doing an almost daily commute of less than three miles.

The dealers suggested it might be coked (is that the right term?). Would that make it hard to start when a bit warm???

I would once again say she is driving sweetly with good power and none of the nasty noises she used to have.

This is my last question before I admit defeat and hand her over to the dealers.

Thanks for any suggestions u guys and gals may have.

Aloha Steve

\

 

I guess carbon build up (seals being coked up with carbon) could cause these issues, but you more than likely just have normal ole' compression loss. I'd have a compression test done...you could do a seafoam treatment and see if it helps..but I doubt it will

 

As I said above:



Am I right in thinking those are ok?? Dealership said they were fine.

TIA
Steve

 

Yes, they are:


Failure is at 5.9 @ 250rpm. Your engine is weakening, but it's still within spec and shouldn't cause any problems yet. Healthy is another 0.5+ higher.


Starter is a tad slow. A 280-300rpm starter would improve things.

 

Throw in a bottle or two of Techron Fuel system cleaner, get the engine good and hot, and drive the hell out of that tank of gas, all in one shot.

BC.

 

I am having a nightmare posting...

 

LOL this is Maui the only "fast" road is about ten miles long - I hear what you say. I guess driving high revs in low gear would work.... I have always fancied doing the Road to Hana[/URL] in record time.
Couple of questions:
1) Given what I am planning to do will driving and then stopping a few times for 30 mins or so be OK???
2) Is more better??? (Probably a dumb question.) O'Reilys stock 20 fl oz for 20 gallon and 12 for 12. I was wondering (if this magical stuff is to work) I presume this means the engine is pretty gunked up so would a higher concentration be appropriate???
3) and this is really longer term - could a failing starter motor be part of the problem.... no wait... I am stalling so that can have "f" all to do with the starter. pls forgive me almost 2 am and a bereavement in the family...
OK going to try this over the next couple of days. If no car going in next week - and I am BROKE - with a capital B.
Thanks for the idea
Steve
PS Just realised this is Blade Cutter - he who saved my life last time around if memory serves.

 

OK well fill her up and add a 20 oz of Techron to about 12 gallons of fuel (which surprised me).

Windy road so drive her a mile in first at about 7k revs. Then up the mountain at about 7k in second.

After three miles throw my first CEL in for ever - "multiple misfires" pending with a "cylinder 2 misfire" current or vice versa before that.

Clear CELs drive another five miles or so at 7k revs and again get a multiple misfire CEL.

After that drive about another five miles home with normal hard revving between 4 and 7.5k and everything fine.

Should say stopped at traffic lights after second CEL reset and she stalled flat out but I think after CEL reset it takes a while for the ECU to get comfy again.

The good news is that she started reasonably easily... but the CELs make me nervous. I should remind you peeps I have a BHR ingnition that seemed to cure probs before.

Bit worried that the sustained 7k throws a misfire. Have never kept her at hi revs in second gear in that sustained a way before. Have maxed out 1st, second and, eventually 3rd but then shifted up.... Holding at max revs seems to be the killer here.

Greatful for any thoughts and I presume 100 miles of hard driving enough to see if cleaning ok. This island that means about five miles one way and five the other with traffic lights in between - not ideal.

Night all
Steve

 

Misfires could be due to lots of things, you said you have the BHR kit, but could your spark plugs need replacing?

 

FYI...............I own the speed record on the road to Hana(actually coming back), and this was done in a Lincoln Towncar with four boards on top.

 

Sorta doubt it - only a few thousand miles (have only had it about 10k and put them in around 2k).

I just think holding it at 7k prm in second and first must put a bit of a strain on it.

Have driven it pretty hard today with no probs. Hopefully going for a v rare track day tomorrow and let's see what that produces - broken engine perhaps....

and as for

..... I love a challenge. I may still try it just for FUN!! (LOL I misread that and thought you had four "broads"on board....)

More soon.

Steve

PS I know you should not use too much cleaner but was thinking about doing a Seafoam after this Techron tank. I have had the car over 10k miles and never done a clean out. Two in a row would not be a killer would it :-)

 

You might want to take a look through my seafoam before and after testing thread.

Distilled water works just as well as seafoam and is 1% of the cost per volume, and neither removes carbon very quickly at all. Even after 2 gallons of water there was still significant carbon.

 

OK have driven it 150 miles. The last 105 in two hours which on Maui is an achievement - most of that on a 2.5 mile there and back run. Frigging GROM audio packed up just as I started AGAIN so v bored and fed up and stressed - somewhat over the speed limit... lol.

Anyway seems as bad as ever so in the shop next week.

It really feels more like a vacuum thing or something electrical. It will idle nicely for a few seconds, dip down then come back up or dip down and failDips more if aircon on - sometimes... then 5 mins later idles fine.

Starting maybe a smidge better but much worse than it used to. (EDIT oh had a nightmare hot start again after a couple of good hot starts.)

More later peed off and tired.

BUT MANY MANY thnaks for the kind suggestions. Most appreciated.

 

OK well local Mazda dealer has had a quick look Monday. The wierd rev dropping makes him think throttle body. He has already cleaned it out and thinks I may need a new one.

Going in tomorrow for full exam. Engineer seems excellent - lots of experience with Rx8s.

Question: I have found a recovered throttle body some with 120k miles and some with only 30k miles do they often wear out??? New they seem to be about $600. I can find ex crash ones for about $150 or less.

Any thoughts? Any favourite suppliers???

All the best Steve