A.Mair

yeah i dont really fancy getting my car really dirty, i wanted to keep it on the track.
Phil do you know anyone who could let us use their parking area, say when the store is closed and then we could put some cones up like that guy in the thread and do some laps?

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I'll check with a few friends but most will be aprehensive due to libility issues (don't forget this is sue first ask questions later America). SCCA carrys an insurance policy for these events. I can get it cleared with Metro if I have written permission from the property owner. My store is big but there is no parking lot.

Did you not want to try the Nellis meet?

ivory8

dude np dont bother ur friend about me having my permit...by the tie we get a weekly autocross set up, i have my permit (dec 7) so...dont worry about it man. np

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Your call - I do not like people that discriminate on age - How you conduct yourself should be the deciding factor.

ivory8

yeah. np tho man...lets just focus on getting 1 started then ill join in when legally able. i dont want to make more of a hassle for anyone. since getting autocross put to gether is hard enough

Bam-0

yea ^ hopefully

I really wanna roll with you guys specially since you have a young member like myself and you guys dont discriminate age.

not like the 350Z forums that banned me for no reason

Mikeluvs8

THAT SUCKS. WHY DONT YOU TRADE IN YOUR Z FOR AN 8.

mx193

Hang up the 350 and get an 8... Nothing drives like one.....

JeremyG

You will never find anyplace to let you do an autocross unless you have liability insurance, and if you are arranging/running the event, you'd be dumb to do it without insurance.

I ran the 3000GT/Stealth National Gathering for 5 years, we had an autocross, road course, drag race, car show and a road rallye and got insurance from K&K Insurance. It was around $5000 per year which would allow you to run about 20-30 events depending on # of participants.

K&K is BY FAR the cheapest and easiest to work with, believe me I researched it for HOURS AND HOURS for 5 years trying to find a better option.


By the way I'm working on getting a "rotary day" set up at either LVMS or Parumph road courses. I'm trying to get it around $150 for 1 day, but it may be more cost effective to do 2 days at around $250/car. This would probably include LIMITED instruction as well.


As for age.. guys you have to realize there's LAWS. It's not descrimination. I know K&K (and all other insurances) only allow 18+ so that's the limitation, NOT the organizers.

A.Mair

it sounds to me like you have a lot of remorse still about the 350z forums, you post about it a lot. I think maybe you should seek Dr Phils advice on this.

Sorry Phil, im confused about this meet, so whats the one at Nellis?

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/...28124093775934

Try this link and follow it to the autocross thread. Don't be shy they are nice people (I know your not shy but just had to say that).

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

No disrespect but I do not think we are talking the same thing. SCCA which is the great grand father of all racing, holds meets that are open to all properly licensed participants (certain exceptions apply). If you happen to be under 18 then you need only have a valid drivers license and release from your parents. If I where to listen to you then Marco Andretti, Scott Speed and such must be 50ish. If you choose to use an insurance that limits your ability to hold a meet for licensed drivers than so be it but do not invite me. You most likely have some ability but why would I participate in an event where the organizer is unknown, chooses not to show his affiliations, has only posted 23 times on this forum and discriminates against younger people. What are your qualifications? I admit that I have none as I have not actively raced since the early 60s except for the Nevada Road Races. If I were going to participate in a racing program it would be SCCA as you will get licensed and proper instruction, have a chance to earn your own license and race in a properly structured environment.

The event that we are leaning toward would be a closed event open to only to active members of this forum/club, charge no fee, award no cash prizes and as such could get a limited policy. Now how to pay for it.......

Apologies to Mr. Andretti if I misspelled his name.

DOMINION

I'm there! with beer

DOMINION

Well I failed. I got a email stating that they will not be considering me as a prime candidate. Guess 6+ years of experience is not enough.
No job=no SSX. Oh well. I'll keep looking.

Phil I think we talked about doing this at the last meet. What do you think?

mx193

I own an insurance brokerage and could help with the best price on all lines of insurance. Who ever owns the property will want coverage for the event. Even if you don’t charge an entry fee and keep it to an invite only event. If someone gets hurt on the property or if some damages the property the owner would need to be covered. I don’t think you will find an owner to take the risk. Best of luck and I am always here if you need a quote.

A.Mair

can someone explain what auto cross is, im not retarded its just that in england auto cross is riding motorbikes across the dirt.

What is different in the pic gilbert

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Gil:
Sorry to here that you did not get the position.

I like the color - no it looks good but if we talked about it I must have had cotton in my ears.

MX193:
I came across wrong if you thought I was trying to do it without insurance. It can't be done in todays climate. I was only stating that we could get insurance that will cover the younger members and that if we stuck with SCCA then they carry the insurance. God how would we pay for it??? We're not even an organized club.

Anthony:
It is kind of like a sallom but with orange cones marking the track. (my spelling is off). We will get into it when my vacations are done. Go to that web site that I showed you and it should have a description.

A.Mair

oh cool, when do you go on your vacation?

R Magic

Bummer.. Work can take up all your time, especially when you have a wife. But, like Phil said with the exception of gas, a meet does not require a money outlay. But, hopefully you saved enough to get your wife something special!

I was going to say the same thing! In my own opinion the RX-8 is 10x a better car than the Z! It doesn't have the HP to match the Z's, but with some F/I the RX-8 is a beast!

You just have to have a driver's license, and some groups require that you be 18, or have a guardian with you. see who sponsors track days in your area, they will all have a set of rules.


- Phil, some smoked tail lights would look freakin' awesome!! Think about..

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I never thought about smoked tails - Hummm ......That may be what Gil is showing me.

R Magic

I think, that's what Gilbert was talking about, but seriously give it some thought! It make your 8 stand out even more..


This thread hit 10,000 views and almost a 1,000 replies!!

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Sorry for hogging this thread but just have a bunch to say and forget half of it until my last posting is submitted.
I called Cam (Pettit racing) and talked to him about why I have not got my premix - he forgot and shipped it out yesterday so it should be here by the Wednesday meet. He's doing an install at SSX on a guys 8 from Arizona right in his booth. There will be a whole bunch of cool stuff this year. If you've been reading the premix threads you will see what it's doing for mileage. Mazda may soon give it's blessing to a FI source (it could be Mazda Speed only though).

Gill, why don't you get together with someone else that's a little short and share the costs, drive down for the day and just come back that way you could just share the gas. Hell mickey d has a dollar menu so food would be minimal. I know several guys from Arizona that are going solo but it would be hard to hook up with them. Maybe someone from the 7 club.

MX193: Don't make a big thing about it but find out how much the insurance would be. I have a friend that might be willing to allow the use of his parking lot if I have insurance and guarantee to a "leave it like I found it" cleanup.

Anthony: I'm leaving tomorrow and will return by Wednesday for the meet and installing my new radiator. I'll leave again on Thursday evening for SSX. I'll stay home and check on work the following week then it's off in the motor home for another weeks trip all over Nevada. There are still some areas of Nevada I've never seen. Did you ever follow that link I sent you to see autocross?

Oh ya, if anyone else wants to come to the garage meet and meet Ray, just PM me for directions. Gil's bringing chips and dip and I'm suppling cokes, diet cokes and bottled water.
Phil

JeremyG

No, actually I think you are misunderstanding my post. You are killing the messenger, I'm just telling you of my 7 years of experience in researching motorsports insurance. Yes, SCCA is different, but to my knowledge they are the ONLY organization that has insurance (by the way, thru K&K Insurance) that allows under 18.

I'm not even trying to get into a <18 >18 argument, I could care less. And I WISH YOU LUCK in organizing this autocross "series" of events. I'll for sure attend several of them!

What I WILL tell you, again, is that anyone who would promote/organize ANY driving event WITHOUT insurance is a complete and total idiot. Anyone who would PARTICIPATE in such an event would also be an idiot. One simple mistake and you lose everything... your house (or the ability to EVER own one), your MONEY, pretty much everything.

And I will also restate that the insurance is EXPENSIVE and WILL limit the participants to 18+. Not MY decision, but you are STUCK. K&K will cost a bit over $5000/year for a $2million policy (the minimum).

That said, the idea of a private event is still feasible. Charge $10/head... if you get 20 people each event, that's $200/event. Run one every other week and your insurance is paid for. But you still need to get someone to front the money and take the risk. You'll also need to officially get a "club" started, with bylaws, membership fee ($1/year minimum), etc. etc. since any insurance company will want to know about the ORGANIZATION that they are insuring. They won't just give a policy to some random dude. Oh, and you'll also have to get a safety steward and some other specific people to be covered.

NOW, please don't kill the messenger, but your attitude towards me was pretty agressive... I've just given you a 20-hour head start on the project, since it would take you AT LEAST 20 hours to learn the info that I just gave you. You should be thankful.

As for "my" event, it would be limited to the insurance that I would get through the track facility. I would have no say in the matter. So I would hardly call it "discrimination".

As for whether you'd attend, also not my concern. No offense but there's just a few more rotary owners in this area, more than just you. While I'd love support from everyone, I learned LONG ago that I cannot please everyone. Don't take that wrong, it's nothing personal against you... I just realize that I cannot please everyone and I don't let it bother me.

Also as for "my" event, I don't want to clutter this thread... IF the event comes to fruition I'll post it in a separate thread... but you asked about my "qualifications"... so here they are:

- Founded the 3000GT/Stealth National Gathering, an event that has run now for 6 years. We have had 180-320 cars coming from a total of 46 states to the event. The event consists of 3 driving events (drags, autocross, and road course) as well as a car show, banquet, etc. run during the 4 day event. Over the years over 600 unique car owners have attended. It is the PREMIER event for the 3000gt/Stealth community (as "famous" as SevenStock is for the Rotary community, except the 3/S NG is a LOT more involved). As I said, I founded the event and ran it for 5 years, we handed it off to a new group last year.

- I myself am "this close" to earning my instructor credentials from the Porche Club. I have instructed in close to a dozen events in the last couple years.

- When I lived in Indiana, in my Stealth, I participated in COUNTLESS auto-x's (SCCA) and won my class for 2 years in a row. I have BOXES of trophies from driving events. I also participated in 3 HPDE days for road course, and instructed in several events.

- I just bought my RX8 in February and have driven it in 2 road course events and 2 auto-x's. I don't have a lot of posts here, mainly because I tend to "lurk" quite a bit before I start posting. I would think, though, that a reasonable person would NOT consider "post count" as a gauge of knowledge and/or dedication to a club or car platform?

- In case it matters, I have around 8500 posts on 3si.org and I think if you ask around there you'd find that I'm one of the top 10 or so "most respected" members (mostly due to my Founding of the National gathering). FWIW, a year ago, I was the 2nd "most active" poster on the forums, but I haven't posted much in the last year or so, since I sold my Stealth... although I still lurk EVERY DAY and post periodically.


The event I have envisioned would be very similar to the Road Course portion of the 3S NG, it's called a "track day" or "lapping day"... it's NOT A RACE. There would be a great deal of structure and safety precautions. There would be instruction available. People would be in "run groups" that fit their level of experience. Basically it's a SAFE day on the track, learning about how to drive our cars.

On a sidenote, in 5 years we had 70 unique drivers at our road course event, and 55 of them had NEVER been on a track before. In 5 years, there has been over 500 hours of total track time (20 to 25 cars, 4 hours per car times 5 years) with only ONE "incident"... surprisingly that involved a 15-year performance driving veteran who has been an instructor for 11 years... and it was primarily equipment-related more than driver-related.

Anyway, IF my event comes to fruition, it will be a well-run, professional event run by a very experienced driver who also has extensive experience putting on events such as this.

I do wish you luck on the auto-x project, and if you need ANY help, ANY advice, or just someone to throw some ideas at, just PM me and I'll get you my phone number!

A.Mair

i dont think phil means to be aggressive in his posts, its just the way they read. The problem with messages on this is they can come across wrong because you dont get the tone of how the person meant...if you know what i mean.
I would love to do something with my RX8 on a track, everyones always on these boards saying oh well this car is great for corners but really only stick to the road. I love going down to red rock just for thr drive. You get the best out of your rx8 and its a lot of fun and some beautiful scenery.

Im always up for going down there with anyone for a few laps if anyone wants to. Its good fun until we could arrange a track day etc. It sounds like Phil and you Jeremy know your stuff, why dont you guys put your heads together on this one. Phils loaded too

only playing Phil

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

JeremyG: You caused me to go back and read my comments about insurance. I don't see where I said any thing about not having it but since MX193 seems to have understood the same thing then I must have not conveyed myself properly. Only a properly insured event would be held but in the past it was easier to get if it was a club only event and I was hoping it had not changed.
1. I am not qualified to oversee or promote an open event and would not do so.
2. I am not really qualified to oversee or promote a closed event but I do have friends that are and if MX193 finds out about the insurance I may in fact call in favors. It would not be a series just a one time event to teach and get the members to go to SCCA events. There may be some reluctance to "make a fool of yourself" in front of people.
3. All of my posts, no matter what else you read, promoted SCCA and I tried to stress the use of SCCA.
4. We have members who are under 18 but desire to do something other than street race. I would be remiss to myself if I did not steer these young men in a proper manor not just say "your too young" and that is why I push SCCA because they have the same attitude.
5. Your post was very negative and told me/us what we can't do and then asked us to join in an event that will not allow all our members to participate in.
6. Yes you seem to have some creditability in what you do. If you'd have posted a link to your qualifications it would have been better.
7. You are correct I should not have used postings as a gage of your creditability but I have only seen one other of your postings on this forum and had the feeling you were a troll.
8. I did not intend to bash your event as I knew nothing about it. What I said was I would not participate and did not recommend anyone else to participate as it was not a SCCA sanctioned event. Why not just have this event sanctioned by SCCA? At least that way a young man could get points toward his SCCA license.
You need never give me a head start on any thing - I know my limitations and attributes. You disagree with any thing I say, comment now do not wait.

I no longer race or wish to practice with others (except for Nevada Road Racing) and buy my own time on the track when I wish to feel the rush again. There is always blocks of time available and for sale.

Just to be clear. NO EVENT WITHOUT INSURANCE. I ONLY RECOMMEND SCCA SANCTIONED EVENTS.

This is an open forum and we all can have our say, I think we both need to watch how we say it so it's not misconstrued
Phil