SoCal Tuning & DynoDay with MazdaManiac - Jan. 24th
01-29-2009, 04:17 PM
#851
)
01-29-2009, 04:56 PM
#852
01-29-2009, 05:03 PM
#854
01-29-2009, 05:03 PM
#855
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your woman is a better GRILLER then YOU?! That's against "MAN LAW" !!
pick a holiday weekend and I'm there. (3 days weekends make it easier to get there )
pick a holiday weekend and I'm there. (3 days weekends make it easier to get there )
01-29-2009, 05:06 PM
#856
Jeff knows nothing about the burgers I made at my own b-day party.
Seriously, I am okay with steak (and other grilling, in general) and Jeff makes some killer wings. Michelle makes some great chili and other scratch-cooking dishes. I just SCORCHED the burgers at my party because I was drunk and fascinated with the flames.
Man Law is safe and secure in my house (for another couple days, anyway).
Even MORE seriously, there is always an open invitation to anyone from the forum who wishes to visit AZ. You get here and we will take care of the rest.
Seriously, I am okay with steak (and other grilling, in general) and Jeff makes some killer wings. Michelle makes some great chili and other scratch-cooking dishes. I just SCORCHED the burgers at my party because I was drunk and fascinated with the flames.
Man Law is safe and secure in my house (for another couple days, anyway).Even MORE seriously, there is always an open invitation to anyone from the forum who wishes to visit AZ. You get here and we will take care of the rest.
Last edited by Charles R. Hill; 01-29-2009 at 05:09 PM.
01-29-2009, 05:10 PM
#858
01-29-2009, 05:13 PM
#860
Jeff knows nothing about the burgers I made at my own b-day party.
Seriously, I am okay with steak (and other grilling, in general) and Jeff makes some killer wings. Michelle makes some great chili and other scratch-cooking dishes. I just SCORCHED the burgers at my party because I was drunk and fascinated with the flames. Man Law is safe and secure in my house (for another couple days, anyway).
Even MORE seriously, there is always an open invitation to anyone from the forum who wishes to visit AZ. You get here and we will take care of the rest.
Seriously, I am okay with steak (and other grilling, in general) and Jeff makes some killer wings. Michelle makes some great chili and other scratch-cooking dishes. I just SCORCHED the burgers at my party because I was drunk and fascinated with the flames.
Man Law is safe and secure in my house (for another couple days, anyway).Even MORE seriously, there is always an open invitation to anyone from the forum who wishes to visit AZ. You get here and we will take care of the rest.
01-29-2009, 07:25 PM
#863
01-29-2009, 07:28 PM
#864
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iTrader: (7)
I never want to see "Eviltwinkie" and "pitching a tent" in the same sentence again. kthanxbye
Seriously though Ray, we gotta find a weekend to head out there, I'll bring Emilie and a few of the socal guys. (maybe even twinkie if he plays nice and his little slow *** car can keep up...)
Seriously though Ray, we gotta find a weekend to head out there, I'll bring Emilie and a few of the socal guys. (maybe even twinkie if he plays nice and his little slow *** car can keep up...)
01-29-2009, 07:40 PM
#865
I never want to see "Eviltwinkie" and "pitching a tent" in the same sentence again. kthanxbye
Seriously though Ray, we gotta find a weekend to head out there, I'll bring Emilie and a few of the socal guys. (maybe even twinkie if he plays nice and his little slow *** car can keep up...)
Seriously though Ray, we gotta find a weekend to head out there, I'll bring Emilie and a few of the socal guys. (maybe even twinkie if he plays nice and his little slow *** car can keep up...)
once i fix it...its coming to punk you on teh dyno...
01-29-2009, 07:49 PM
#866
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bring it on smalls!
01-29-2009, 08:08 PM
#867
ruthless8
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Fi/ap
Hello all I was curious about something. I saw a lot of the results from the FI guys and I have to say that I was really not impressed. With such low dyno numbers could it be said that the bang was worth the buck. I know our engines are a lot different then piston engines. However even the RX7 gets a lot better gains out of FI then our 8's. I was thinking about going FI but I own an AT and to me it would be even less gains. All the companies claim high numbers from their products but when I have talked to people who have all different types of FI on their 8'sthey all say that their dyno numbers were the same as the ones we had. It seems almost a better idea to do a motor swap and put a 3rd gen rx7 motor in the 8.
On the subject of the AP I was reading threads and it seems that more then NGO and who ever else had a problem with it, that a lot of people who bought it love it but as of recently they have been having issues with it as well, I know its not about gaining WHP with it as it is more of a tuning device but at the price it sells for is it really worth it as well. While I may seem like I am bashing on FI and AP believe me when I say I am not. But I just want more for my money especially in economic times like this. So please be gentle with me but your input is appreciated. I this time was able to get 10whp more then last time I have no clue how much it was at the motor but there has to be some product that will help with a lower cost.
On the subject of the AP I was reading threads and it seems that more then NGO and who ever else had a problem with it, that a lot of people who bought it love it but as of recently they have been having issues with it as well, I know its not about gaining WHP with it as it is more of a tuning device but at the price it sells for is it really worth it as well. While I may seem like I am bashing on FI and AP believe me when I say I am not. But I just want more for my money especially in economic times like this. So please be gentle with me but your input is appreciated. I this time was able to get 10whp more then last time I have no clue how much it was at the motor but there has to be some product that will help with a lower cost.
Last edited by jordanjerome; 01-29-2009 at 08:13 PM.
01-29-2009, 08:14 PM
#868
Hello all I was curious about something. I saw a lot of the results from the FI guys and I have to say that I was really not impressed. With such low dyno numbers could it be said that the bang was worth the buck. I know our engines are a lot different then piston engines. However even the RX7 gets a lot better gains out of FI then our 8's. I was thinking about going FI but I own an AT and to me it would be even less gains. All the companies claimes high numbers from their products but when I have spoken to them about it they all say that their dyno numbers were the same as the ones we had. It seems almost a better idea to od a motor swap and put a 3rd gen rx7 motor in the 8.
On the subject of the AP I was reading threads and it seems that more then NGO and who ever else had a problem with it, that a lot of people who bought it love it but as of recently they have been having issues with it as well, I know its not about gaining WHP with it as it is more of a tuning device but at the price it sells for is it really worth it as well. While I may seem like I am bashing on FI and AP believe me when I say I am not. But I just want more for my money especially in economic times like this. So please be gentle with me but your input is appreciated. I this time was able to get 10whp more then last time I have no clue how much it was at the motor but there has to be some product that will help with a lower cost.
On the subject of the AP I was reading threads and it seems that more then NGO and who ever else had a problem with it, that a lot of people who bought it love it but as of recently they have been having issues with it as well, I know its not about gaining WHP with it as it is more of a tuning device but at the price it sells for is it really worth it as well. While I may seem like I am bashing on FI and AP believe me when I say I am not. But I just want more for my money especially in economic times like this. So please be gentle with me but your input is appreciated. I this time was able to get 10whp more then last time I have no clue how much it was at the motor but there has to be some product that will help with a lower cost.
heh...seriously...
but in short...the older rotary design has had tons of work and tinkering in order for it to produce the power output it can...
this newer design is still being "tinkered" with...and the solutions and parts of the puzzle to get the same if not higher levels of power are slowly materializing...
your best bet right now...get "satans hairdryer" and follow it up with "satan's lighter"...
the weakest links of the RX-8 platform are stuffing more air/fuel into it...it can output (exhaust) just fine...and ignition at high power levels...
you'll end up paying less than going for the swap, and be at the same if not better power levels ultimately...its simply a tinker game right now, and since its an expensive game to play, it takes a little while to play catch up...
PS: Ditch the paddles and get a stick if your serious about real power...a swap would force you to do that anyway...so your screwed as is...
Last edited by eviltwinkie; 01-29-2009 at 08:17 PM.
01-29-2009, 08:37 PM
#869
ruthless8
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Well funny you should say that. Look at any drag car where speed matters and high hp motors or most high end sports car and what are they, or switching to???????? AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. I was not told the difference between the two when I bought the car and did not do research I just fell in love with the car because it was my fav color and had the options I wanted. So what the MT is faster in the 8. I dont think I am screwed and the 8 has been around since 04 there has been a lot of time to tinker. If results dont get better soon then it looks like a swap is in order because I am not going to buy a whole different car only to have to spend more money. I looked into a swap fully installed on its around 10-12k for motor, tranny and everything putting out 400+ whp. If I wanted to keep it AT they said they can work with me there too. BTW what the heck is the SATAN HAIRDRYER AND LIGHTER? lol
Last edited by jordanjerome; 01-29-2009 at 08:43 PM.
01-29-2009, 10:07 PM
#870
Best to get the ignition system, first.
After the Cobb AP.
01-29-2009, 10:20 PM
#871
3-wheeler
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Hello all I was curious about something. I saw a lot of the results from the FI guys and I have to say that I was really not impressed. With such low dyno numbers could it be said that the bang was worth the buck. I know our engines are a lot different then piston engines. Howe
There are numerous other kits including MazdaManiac's greddy upgrade which tosses the Greddy turbo and uses a garret gt3071r. That kit is capable of making much more power than what we saw at the dyno day.
I'm not sure who you talked to or what kits they had, but 9 out of 10 vendors advertise their highest whp numbers with their turbo kits and often the results are very hard to duplicate.
As for a motor swap, while I'm not in the business of telling people not to do things, you're kidding yourself thinking $12,000 is all you'll spend with a 13b swap making 400+ whp. Even using the RX7 5 speed transmission, that tranny is only good till about 450whp. Around 400whp to 450whp you start snapping axles, and you run the risk of damaging rear drivetrain and suspension parts.
Also, I'd like to point out that the nature of the RX8's design with 400+whp is a rather unstable one. Getting that power to the ground is hard and most of it will be unusuable in every situation except smoking that civic on the highway onramp.
Is the accessport "worth it"? Yes, the $695 you spend is much better than the $1,000 for the greddy emanage ultimate and the $1,500 for the interceptor X. You could look into a full stand alone like a motec for around $5,000 or something else a little cheaper. All of which either don't have the robust nature of the accessport or would require loads of capital for a professional tuner to use.
The accessport allows complete control of the PCM while allowing you to maintain all your stock parts, gauges, and overall function of the car. We had 3 cases of bricked PCM's due to problems with the accessport firmware. Otherwise, 90% of the problems people have had were user error.
For half the cost of your motor swap you could be putting down plenty of power and still be within the limits of the RX8 and have a reliable vehicle.
However, if your entire focus is on "impressive" numbers than it's clear you're only building a dyno queen so you can have that 400whp dyno sheet to show everyone. It all depends on whether your interested in real performance or a nice looking dyno curve.
01-29-2009, 10:57 PM
#872
ruthless8
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Wow, a lot here so I'll try and address it as best as I can. First of all, I guess it's going to depend on your opinion as to what "impressive" numbers are on a FI or N/A vehicle. It should be pointed out that many of the vehicles which were FI at the dyno day are using the Greddy turbo kit which is only rated at about 260whp and is mostly limted to 6psi of boost.
However, if your entire focus is on "impressive" numbers than it's clear you're only building a dyno queen so you can have that 400whp dyno sheet to show everyone. It all depends on whether your interested in real performance or a nice looking dyno curve.
However, if your entire focus is on "impressive" numbers than it's clear you're only building a dyno queen so you can have that 400whp dyno sheet to show everyone. It all depends on whether your interested in real performance or a nice looking dyno curve.
Last edited by jordanjerome; 01-29-2009 at 11:05 PM.
01-30-2009, 07:10 AM
#875
I dont think any car was built on a platform for what people have managed to do with them but it works and it has been done. I am not wanting to build a dyno queen considering that my 975WHP mustang is not just a dyno queen and I still drive her every day. I dont want to build the 8 for just drag racing or just beating the occasional honda. I want the high numbers because I like more power. And if the guy from one of the florida threads put a small block 350 in his 8 putting down around 475 to the wheels and never breaking anything lose on his then I think its very likely that I can do the same. As for you thinking it will cost a lot more then that price. This was the price quoted to me by Speed Machine Performance. Also my sponser is paying most of the cost that is extra. So that is why it will only cost around my stated quote, I can gladly attach the quote they sent me in my email. And with a drivetrain and suspension upgrade it would handle the power fine for my driving style. Also they said they could pull more out of the swap but then it would not be steetable. I have done my research with these guys and they build drift cars and have a fully built 8 with a 13b rew single turbo putting well over 450+ to the ground and while it is not a street car they have never once broke the axle. Also even staying away from drag cars it still shows that most sports cars are switching to the Sport tronic shift with paddle shifting. Now while the RX8 is no high end exotic I think Mazda was just lazy and only cared about the MT market. With the right R&D an AT could have been produces and made cost effective and have the same power as the MT. Again thanks everyone for being gentle I know that everyone thinks the AT is not worth the money. I also love the 8 that is why I chose it over the 350z and every other sports car out there not to mention I love the engine the 8 and 7 have as opposed to the piston engine. Maybe I will look into the Greddy upgrade kit even though I think a kit needs to be made that does not have the Greddy word in it. However I will wait to see its whp output and steetability before I purchase. I thought at least one of the FI cars had the MM turbo? Well thanks for everyones input I love a good banter over such a great car. I am not saying the AP and BHR stuff nor the FI is not great products, just more concerned about what I am really getting for the money is it the bang for the buck really worth it. Trust me after roughly $50k put into my mustang and tons of work I learned not to just blow money on a car without thoroughly thinking it through and doing research.
Lower end of the drag spectrum...I used to run an Olds 607cu V8 putting down on a good day 500ft/lbs of torque, and an avg of 475 on a bad day...it used the 3-Speed hydromatic with a shiftkit, upgraded clutchpacks, and a modified torque converter...and even then, I was having to rebuild it after I beat the snot outta it one too many times...and rebuilding AT's is a serious bitch...
No matter how you slice it...AT's are simply not designed for long term reliability when coupled with high power levels. It's an inherent design issue, which might have been solved by ford's newest design. Which is basically, a manual transmission, with a computer controlled dual clutch...
Most "cars are switching to" flappy paddles simply because its a nice marketing gimmick. Your high end exotics, have them, and those are usually built with carbon ceramic and other exotic components. The standard issue cars with the feature under track abuse have been exploding and failing.
Even the mighty GTR is falling victim to the issue of AT failure when used in extreme conditions...see the following link for a visual example...
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/H...GTR_317079.htm
Anything less than an MT for a street driven "reliable" and or easier/cheaper to fix high WHP vehicle...and your going to be spending loads of cash repairing your drivetrain...if it doesn't take anything else out with it when it fails...
Any shop owner is going to tell you whatever they can to get your money, and its up to you to do your homework. Ask the boys who do this stuff for a living, or call up a local drag team...experience in the field from an owner/driver perspective is what you need...NOT a shop...
And the best bang for your buck...is the CobbAP if anything, so you dont have to spend additional cash replacing sensors and leverage your current investment....